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Streetable 327 freshly built

  
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Streetable 327 freshly built

 
forrest0405 forrest0405
New User | Posts: 8 | Joined: 07/13
Posted: 07/13/13
03:19 AM

I'm looking at buying a 67 Vette locally that has a major flaw. Somebodies put a 70s LT1 in it where it clearly doesn't belong. If I do end up getting the car I've decided to use a 327 as most people I've spoken to say that the high reving 327 would be a better build and more enjoyable motor in a car that will likely rarely if ever see a track. The nice part of all this is that there is a running motor in the car, which means I can budget the build out over 6-10 months and still enjoy the car. If I wanted to build a 400-450 horse 327, how much would it really cost? I intend on doing this with a freshly machined block starting from scratch. It also may be worth noting that when I do finally swap the motor in I'll also be swapping out the tired old M21 with a modern Tremec, not sure if that makes a difference in how you would build it. A friend of mine suggested 3:73 gears or close to in the rear, once again, not something I know a whole lot about. This will be my first time building a motor from scratch so any advice would be greatly appreciated.  

68scott385 68scott385
Guru | Posts: 1990 | Joined: 10/09
Posted: 07/13/13
04:57 AM

Since no one can really tell the difference between the displacements of the Chevy small block just by looking at the motor, why worry about it. Sure you can read the casting numbers and look for suffix codes and run those to see what the motor is, but for the most part just a visual will not indicate CID. What I'm getting at is why worry about the correct cubic inch engine if you are going to put a modern transmission in it. It won't be numbers correct collectible either way so why be picky about it.

Does it have the oil filler tube sticking up from the intake manifold? If not, put one in it and call it a 327, few will know the difference.

Then there's the reality of the hp you request from the small cid you want it from. The factory called their hot 327s 375hp motors and at that time those were gross numbers meaning no accessories or water pump was being driven off the crank. IMO you'd be better off to build a 427 big block that could be had in those cars. It would be much easier both physically and financially to get 400-450hp from a 427 than a 327 and have much better street manners even with a manual transmission.  
68scott385 68scott385 68scott385

forrest0405 forrest0405
New User | Posts: 8 | Joined: 07/13
Posted: 07/13/13
05:47 AM

Most Vettes I've seen have gone one of the two routes you've mentioned, they've dropped the 427 in or dressed up the 350 to make it look indistinguishable. I'd like to do a 327 simply because it sets itself just that little bit apart from other builds. Im quite certain the trans isn't numbers matching anyway and Im not looking to even build on a block with the proper numbers unless that just happens to be the block I find. A C2 corvette is far from a common car, I just think it'd be cool to drop in a motor just as different and cool. I know it won't be the cheapest build, but I have seen build sheets on 500 horse 327s come in just under 10k, many with the note that it was more of a "could we do it" kind of thing and that 450 horse wouldn't be much of a stretch. Would I it be possible to build one for around 6-7k in the power I'm looking for?  

redneckjoe69 redneckjoe69
Addict | Posts: 2337 | Joined: 03/10
Posted: 07/13/13
06:56 AM

would be cool to drop in a modern ls motor and t-56. Cool    ls1's are 327s, lol.    cheapest route would be to find a wrecked donor vehicle.    then you'll have everything you need.   just an idear.  

forrest0405 forrest0405
New User | Posts: 8 | Joined: 07/13
Posted: 07/13/13
07:07 AM

Ive looked into LS series motors and they would be cool, however I don't feel like dealing with all the electrical that comes with it. You can find LS1s cheap from time to time, but you also have to factor in the fabrication(for which I lack the skill) needed to put one in. I have seen bolt in LS conversion cross memebers, but they're far from cheap. LS1s are 350s I think. LS4s were very close to a 327, but almost all the applications I've seen them in are transverse...so I'm not sure if they would bolt right in or not on a normal setup. If I could afford an LS7 I would, but they are MASSIVELY expensive.  

Dave632 Dave632
Addict | Posts: 2220 | Joined: 07/08
Posted: 07/13/13
11:02 AM

I agree with Scott. A 400-450hp 327 will not be a very street friendly engine and as you know it will be costly.
If your budget for a motor is 10K why not build a big small block, say 427/454 cu. in.. Using a Dart little M and a good get of Dart or AFR heads with a full roller setup you could get the HP you are looking for, be much more street friendly, and have something different. Very few have SBs that big, many have small cubic inch SBs. I have nothing against 327s having run them in the past but that was 40 years ago. I went the big route, much bigger. By the way LT1s did not come out until 93 and they were Fuel Injected motors.  
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redneckjoe69 redneckjoe69
Addict | Posts: 2337 | Joined: 03/10
Posted: 07/13/13
12:02 PM

GM  actually made 3 different LT1s.     there was the 70s lt1.     then the early 90s lt1.  i believe it came out on the 92 vette?     then the current lt1 in the new vettes.

http://www.ask.com/wiki/GM_LT1_engine?o=2800&qsrc=999  

redneckjoe69 redneckjoe69
Addict | Posts: 2337 | Joined: 03/10
Posted: 07/13/13
12:02 PM

GM  actually made 3 different LT1s.     there was the 70s lt1.     then the early 90s lt1.  i believe it came out on the 92 vette?     then the current lt1 in the new vettes.

http://www.ask.com/wiki/GM_LT1_engine?o=2800&qsrc=999  

forrest0405 forrest0405
New User | Posts: 8 | Joined: 07/13
Posted: 07/13/13
12:16 PM

I hadn't thought about a small block 427, that would certainly be pretty cool. It'd be a different take on a 67 427 to be certain. I've never actually seen one though outside of a few for sale on the web from time to time, would that end up behaving more like a low end torque big block counterpart or higher reving small block? Thanks for the tip.  

Dave632 Dave632
Addict | Posts: 2220 | Joined: 07/08
Posted: 07/13/13
04:43 PM

Here is a site that advertises a 427 Short block with a new Dart block and forged pistons for around 3500. They have a 454 too.
http://www.tristarengines.com/catalog/pro-startm-427-cid-small-block-chevy-shortblock-featuring-darttm-shp-block.html
You would be much better off with a bigger motor and a milder cam, etc. for better street manners and still be able to get near your hp goal. This would not be a high rpm screamer like the 327 would be at the same hp. The bigger motor would live longer to as high rpms are engine killers. Here is another one from that same company for a complete 427 for 8000. They claim 550 hp but that would not be a street friendly version in my opinion.
http://www.tristarengines.com/catalog/pro-startm-427-cid-small-block-complete-dyno-d-crate-engine-featuring-darttm-shp-block-and-pro-1-cylinder-heads.html  
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forrest0405 forrest0405
New User | Posts: 8 | Joined: 07/13
Posted: 07/14/13
12:12 AM

Single plane intakes will give me better power over the whole range but with a lower peak power correct? I always get this backwards. The is a sweet option, I'd still kind of like to build it myself though. I may have given the misimpression I have 10k to drop on this at once, I really wish I did...but the car is going to pretty much clean out the toy money. This may seem like a very strange way of doing it, but If I purchased the short block and a cam close to what I want will most of the other parts from the LT1 fit? Granted, it won't run anywhere near it potential, but would it run happily on the heads and intake from the LT1 until I spent the money on much better ones? Thanks again.  

Dave632 Dave632
Addict | Posts: 2220 | Joined: 07/08
Posted: 07/14/13
06:07 AM

You want the dual plane intake for a street motor.
Nothing wrong with building it yourself. I don't know which LT motor you have but if it is the newer ones, which I doubt, most of those parts will not fit.
I am pretty sure the old LT parts will fit the new Dart block as Dart makes it's blocks compatible with most small blocks. The big M I had even had multiple oil pan holes so that different pans could be used.
Believe me I know about spending toy money I ran a Pro Mod style car back in the early 2000s and it cost me a 1000 a month just in upkeep running it in one event and one test and tune a month. I did win about 4000 with that car during the season but that was easily eaten up.
Here is a picture of that car, it had an aluminum 632 in it.
MVC 026S 2  
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68scott385 68scott385
Guru | Posts: 1990 | Joined: 10/09
Posted: 07/14/13
08:02 AM

IMO if you are going to build this motor as time permits and plan on forking out the coin for an aftermarket block, you should wait until money allows for aftermarket heads to complete the build instead of re-using factory parts to get it done early. JM.02

My point is that if you already have a motor in the car that you can drive around until the mega bullet is done, why use old parts to get the new one running when you plan on buying new parts anyway. IDK, maybe my way of thinking is screwy.

To be honest, I'm in the same boat myself right now.  
68scott385 68scott385 68scott385

forrest0405 forrest0405
New User | Posts: 8 | Joined: 07/13
Posted: 07/14/13
08:04 AM

Awesome car. I'd love to actually build something like that one day, but that's several years and a much better paying job later for me. As I understand it the LT1 is from an early C3 Vette(or at least that's how it's advertised, may not be an LT1 at all and he just thinks that's what it is), I do know for certain it is a small block chevy so it just might work. All this is of course several months from actually happening, but I'll be sure to post once I pick it up and actually go about trying to swap the motor out. Thanks for all the info!  

forrest0405 forrest0405
New User | Posts: 8 | Joined: 07/13
Posted: 07/14/13
08:07 AM

No, you're probably right...that would likely be the best way of doing it. I'm kind of just trying to form a better idea for myself of what I want to do, so I'm really just kicking around all kinds of ideas. Bouncing ideas off of others I find is usually the best way for me to start something I'll be happy with in the end instead of a complete overhaul halfway through.  

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