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91 "K" engine J body getting no spark or fuel

  
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91 "K" engine J body getting no spark or fuel

 
netwarrior36 netwarrior36
User | Posts: 100 | Joined: 10/08
Posted: 08/16/13
01:13 PM

I've got a 91 J body with the 2.0 4 cyl K code engine fuel injected.  I was driving down the highway and with no warning the car just died so I had to get it towed. I checked for spark and wasn't getting any so I replaced the coil and still I'm getting no spark, my next thought was that I had a bad crank sensor but before shelling out any money I decided I'd make sure that I was getting fuel too, and sure enough I'm not getting fuel either.  

So I've got no spark and no fuel, since the fuel system is electronic, throttle body on this one, would that then indicate a faulty ECM?  
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"If it breaks it was good, and if it doesn't break it's bad."

1978 Chevrolet Nova two-door hatchback

redneckjoe69 redneckjoe69
Addict | Posts: 2337 | Joined: 03/10
Posted: 08/16/13
01:21 PM

hmmmm,...have you checked all fuses and relays?    clean all grounds?     are you getting power to the coil?  

netwarrior36 netwarrior36
User | Posts: 100 | Joined: 10/08
Posted: 08/16/13
01:28 PM

i haven't tried testing anything yet but as soon as able i'll get to the fuses then work my way from there.  
--------------------
"If it breaks it was good, and if it doesn't break it's bad."

1978 Chevrolet Nova two-door hatchback

netwarrior36 netwarrior36
User | Posts: 100 | Joined: 10/08
Posted: 08/16/13
01:39 PM

fuses are fine  
--------------------
"If it breaks it was good, and if it doesn't break it's bad."

1978 Chevrolet Nova two-door hatchback

netwarrior36 netwarrior36
User | Posts: 100 | Joined: 10/08
Posted: 08/16/13
01:40 PM

grounds are good and clean  
--------------------
"If it breaks it was good, and if it doesn't break it's bad."

1978 Chevrolet Nova two-door hatchback

redneckjoe69 redneckjoe69
Addict | Posts: 2337 | Joined: 03/10
Posted: 08/16/13
01:43 PM

hopefully its something simple and cheap.

  my beater furd recently had a shorted wire.    kept blowing fuses in the under hood block/holder.    when that fuse went out, no fuelpump, spark, generator, etc.  chased the wire down and replaced it, works fine now.

   IIRC, the test for a bad ECM is, start the car, then lightly tap on the computer and see if it runs any different.   LOL.   no kidding!  

netwarrior36 netwarrior36
User | Posts: 100 | Joined: 10/08
Posted: 08/16/13
01:47 PM

Thanks! I'll have to check that out when I'm able to get around to it.  
--------------------
"If it breaks it was good, and if it doesn't break it's bad."

1978 Chevrolet Nova two-door hatchback

waynep712222 waynep712222
Enthusiast | Posts: 251 | Joined: 03/13
Posted: 08/16/13
06:00 PM

first off...  

2 people... one at the drivers seat... the other by the gas tank... when you turn the key on.. can you hear the fuel pump come on for 2 seconds??  yes or no...

find the fuel pump fuse.. i don't know if in that car its under the hood or under the dash in the fuse box..   you can also probe the fuel pump fuse to see if its getting power for those 2 seconds..  the fuel pump fuse is between the fuel pump relay,the 3 wire oil pressure switch thats in parallel with the fuel pump relay  and the fuel pump..


if you get light at the fuse and no fuel pump noise.. pound on the  bottom of the tank hard... while somebody cranks the engine..  this may get the fuel pump brushes into contact one more time..


do you have a timing light????  hook it over the coil wire.. aim it at your steering wheel with the trigger taped on..   crank the engine.. does the timing light flash????  If yes..

move the clamp to each spark plug wire.. and see if you get nice flashing from each spark plug wire..

if you don't .. you could have a rotor thats burned thru..

if you get spark... from the coil to the cap. and from the cap to the spark plugs..

aim the timing light at the underside of the TBI fuel injector.. look for a nicely shaped cone spray...


pull the oil filler cap and look down inside.. see if the cam shaft is turning when somebody cranks the engine.. this is not always visible.

these are the basic checks...

you can also get under the dash and use a short jumper wire to jump the A and B terminal of the ALDL connector and count the flashes from the check engine light..  

netwarrior36 netwarrior36
User | Posts: 100 | Joined: 10/08
Posted: 08/17/13
09:24 AM

I appreciate the replies, though would anyone know as to why the whole system would crap out all at once. The engine cranks but no fuel or spark, would there be a specific item to cause this or is it actually possible a bunch of things went wrong all at the exact same time?  
--------------------
"If it breaks it was good, and if it doesn't break it's bad."

1978 Chevrolet Nova two-door hatchback

waynep712222 waynep712222
Enthusiast | Posts: 251 | Joined: 03/13
Posted: 08/17/13
11:54 AM

timing belt failure... the cam stopped turning..  engine died... no fuel  and no spark because no rpm signal from the NON rotating distributor..


this is the most likely cause...

could have had other electrical failures..

i listed the diagnostic steps to eliminate the possibles above..


the first part is does the fuel pump cycle on for 2 seconds before you crank the engine... that would indicate the fuel pump is alive..

second part.. spark from the coil... burned thru rotors have caused a lot of parts to be replaced.. as the coil can create a spark.. but the spark goes thru the middle of the rotor and directly to ground.. instead of out to the spark plug wires and across the spark plugs..

third... see if the cam is rotating while you crank the engine...   a lot of dead cars because of a broken timing belt...

a broken cam shaft will also cause an issue like this.. as the distributor is no longer turning..  no spark generated.. no rpm signal to the ECM to turn on the fuel pump relay for longer than the first 2 seconds of KEY ON..

lack of oil pressure has also killed a bunch of these. where when changing the oil.. the prime is lost and the engine starts and driver takes off without any oil pressure.. the cam seizes in the head and stops turning.. killing the engine..or a rod breaks and shoves the piston upward slamming it against the open valves and breaks the cam in two...  again stopping the distributor from turning..

improperly torqued cam  and crank sprocket bolts.. that sheared off the woodruff keys.. allowing the cam to get out of phase from the crank.. sometimes the cam will stop turning all together.. and no spark no fuel injector spray pulses..  

redneckjoe69 redneckjoe69
Addict | Posts: 2337 | Joined: 03/10
Posted: 08/17/13
08:23 PM

ive seen faulty fuel pump re-set buttons.   in one case, i eliminated the reset switch and soldered the wires together.    have you checked the reset switch?   should be on the passenger side kick panel or in the trunk.  

   losing spark and fuel makes me think its a main power fuse or fusible link.  

netwarrior36 netwarrior36
User | Posts: 100 | Joined: 10/08
Posted: 08/17/13
09:06 PM

I'm going to take my Ignition Control Mod. into a parts store to get tested tomorrow to see what that does.  The idea of a broken cam, timing belt, or otherwise honestly doesn't seem too likely, but still worrying none the less, else wise I imagine I'd hear some knocking of sorts when the engine is turning over.
My idea the the ICM is that it controls the ignition spark timing in the same sense it sends the signal to the comp. to relay the injector so if the mod. is out neither spark nor fuel would fire. I'm also gonna switch around some relays tomorrow to check those out. Thanks all.  
--------------------
"If it breaks it was good, and if it doesn't break it's bad."

1978 Chevrolet Nova two-door hatchback

netwarrior36 netwarrior36
User | Posts: 100 | Joined: 10/08
Posted: 08/17/13
09:06 PM

I'm going to take my Ignition Control Mod. into a parts store to get tested tomorrow to see what that does.  The idea of a broken cam, timing belt, or otherwise honestly doesn't seem too likely, but still worrying none the less, else wise I imagine I'd hear some knocking of sorts when the engine is turning over.
My idea the the ICM is that it controls the ignition spark timing in the same sense it sends the signal to the comp. to relay the injector so if the mod. is out neither spark nor fuel would fire. I'm also gonna switch around some relays tomorrow to check those out. Thanks all.  
--------------------
"If it breaks it was good, and if it doesn't break it's bad."

1978 Chevrolet Nova two-door hatchback

redneckjoe69 redneckjoe69
Addict | Posts: 2337 | Joined: 03/10
Posted: 08/18/13
08:20 AM

check all those relays.   you'd be surprised what one can control.   do you have a wiring diagram for your car?    losing spark and fuel at once still makes me think its something simple.    switch the relays around and turn your key forward, listen for the fuel pump to kick on.  

netwarrior36 netwarrior36
User | Posts: 100 | Joined: 10/08
Posted: 08/18/13
11:14 PM

So, everything is good...except that the timing belt gear attached to the cam, for lack of better words, shattered.  Right now I'm trying to decide if it's worth the expense and time to find another gear, buy a new belt and fix it hoping that no damage has occurred to anything else, or if I should just see how much a scrapper would give me for it.  My main issue is it being my primary transportation and it helps that it gets a whopping 37 MPG!...when it's running anyways. Thanks for the help!  
--------------------
"If it breaks it was good, and if it doesn't break it's bad."

1978 Chevrolet Nova two-door hatchback

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