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Getting A$$ kicked by lights

  
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Getting A$$ kicked by lights

 
ldickersonc ldickersonc
User | Posts: 168 | Joined: 05/11
Posted: 06/30/13
02:33 PM

my 68 Camaro turn signals are driving me nuts, here are the symptoms
-rear turn signal (not rear side marker lights) work fine, unless the headlights are on, then they do not work
-Side marker lights do not work, unless headlights are on, then they light up solid.
-Right turn signal, you can hear at accelerated pace with headlights off, normal pace with lights on.  Left turn signal, normal pace with lights off, no pulse at all with lights on

Just fixed a few other headlight/highbeam problems, so if you read this post earlier and it is different not, I have updated.  Thank you for the help.  

Dave632 Dave632
Addict | Posts: 2222 | Joined: 07/08
Posted: 06/30/13
04:02 PM

I have always found grounds to cause some crazy problems. The first thing I would check is the grounds on all associated lights. Then get a wiring diagram. The blinker light  that is flashing quickly is usually due to one of the lights not working causing improper load.

Check with Waynep712222 he is up on diagrams and wiring.  
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ldickersonc ldickersonc
User | Posts: 168 | Joined: 05/11
Posted: 06/30/13
04:12 PM

I am sure it is a ground as well, I was just curious if the symptoms can point to where the ground problem is, or if a problem anywhere in the system can cause this.  

ldickersonc ldickersonc
User | Posts: 168 | Joined: 05/11
Posted: 06/30/13
04:16 PM

.  

skyeking skyeking
Addict | Posts: 2738 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 06/30/13
04:57 PM

Hi there,
The more grounds from body to Chassis the better.
I learnt this from one of the WORST cars for electrics
EVER made bar none..Early model Jaguars..
The Prince of Darkness!!!!!! Good luck..Skyeking..  
skyeking

Dave632 Dave632
Addict | Posts: 2222 | Joined: 07/08
Posted: 06/30/13
07:43 PM

As a test I would run a ground directly from the battery negative to the problem light.  
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waynep712222 waynep712222
Enthusiast | Posts: 251 | Joined: 03/13
Posted: 06/30/13
08:06 PM

grounds grounds grounds....

take some 14 , 16 or 18 gauge wire and strip back several inches.. of a several foot long section...

pull the bulb from the socket...   twist the wire around the top of the brass shell at the base of the globe of the bulb..

twist the bulb to tighten the twisted loop....   stick the bulb back into the socket...  many gm sockets have a place you might be able to thread the wire thru .. then hook the end of this new ground wire to a good ground... do each bulb...

your tail, brake and back up lights will now work normally..

the shell of the bulb needs to be grounded as its connected to one end of both filaments..   if the ground is bad.. electrons that flow from the negative side will have to come the LONG way thru the other side of the cars ground.. via the tail light filaments..  when there is positive current flowing..  oops..  no room for negative electrons..  so the ground connection is lost..

want to try something neat...  

disconnect the ground wire on the side marker lights....   move it over to the brake light or turn signal wire on that side..

the side marker lights will now come on as normal with the parking or tail lights.. but will also flash out of sequence with the turn signal lights...  like newer cars


you can also... check with a set of jumper cables up front...

hook both clamps on one end to the negative battery post..

one on the other end to the engine block and the last one to the body somehow.. this duplicates the negative side of the battery cables that supply electrons on the negative side to the body... if your cables are separated...

one from the negative battery to the engine block.. the other from the engine block to something like the master cylinder..  that should fix it for testing..

i have a voltage drop test that you could run in a few minutes if you have a digital volt meter..  

ldickersonc ldickersonc
User | Posts: 168 | Joined: 05/11
Posted: 07/01/13
06:07 PM

"twist the wire around the top of the brass shell at the base of the globe of the bulb"

what bulbs are you referring to? the parking light bulbs?  Will this also affect the side marker lights?  Yes I have a voltage meter, but no idea how to use it.  

waynep712222 waynep712222
Enthusiast | Posts: 251 | Joined: 03/13
Posted: 07/01/13
11:56 PM

i will post a picture tomorrow afternoon or early evening..

the round glass shape of the 1157 tail light /turn signal bulb... where the glass gets narrow and the brass shell coming up to meet it..

this is where you twist the loop of wire..
twist the bulb to snug the loop up tight to the top of the brass shell...

your option to place a small solder joint on it..

stick the end of this wire either thru a hole in the plastic part of the socket.. or out the side.. you may have to be creative..  

once the tail lights bulbs and sockets are reinstalled.. put a ring terminal on the ends of the new wires and bolt them down to a good ground...



see the opening at the 8 o clock position.. thats  a great spot to put the new ground wire..


this is a current replacement socket.. and they blow big time.. really bad...



since this is whats available.. i recommend that you repair what you have with additional ground wires..  whats wrong with these china versions.. see the 2 metal tabs.. they are made of thin tin metal.. the tabs are TOO SHORT..  they cannot latch properly into the tail light housing.  

they fit like this. _______/        \______

when the should fit like this   ______(        )_______  

there is NO WAY to fix them...  i have tried..

this is the over 20 buck opgi version.. i still wonder as the retaining tabs still look thin and short.. i have not had one of these in my hand yet.. i do plan on picking up at least a pair for a friends car..   the end of the tabs should be below the flange surface. so they cannot capture the housing .. the curved areas hold the socket in the housing and make the ground..



CH28290 Lrg

all later model cars use 3 wire sockets..  but won't retrofit to the early housings easily.. and may have the incorrect focal length/height of the filaments above the mounting flange.. remember we are working with optics..   do your reading glasses work properly when they have slipped to your the tip of your nose..


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

the side marker light was an additional idea...  after you finish the tail light bulbs..

having side marker bulbs that flash when the turn signals operate is a cool feature used on later cars..and will blow other people away when they see it and know that first gen cars did not flash like that..  

ldickersonc ldickersonc
User | Posts: 168 | Joined: 05/11
Posted: 07/02/13
10:38 AM

Wait, those side marker lights are NOT turn signals?  

waynep712222 waynep712222
Enthusiast | Posts: 251 | Joined: 03/13
Posted: 07/02/13
07:38 PM

perhaps this will explain it better...

ground the bulb shell with a loop of wire around the top of the brass base right at the bottom of the globe..

Bulb External Ground Wire Zps3bf5f3bd  

waynep712222 waynep712222
Enthusiast | Posts: 251 | Joined: 03/13
Posted: 07/02/13
07:40 PM

this is a conventional way of wiring tail, stop / turn lights with side marker bulbs..

Taillightcircuit1 Zps149060fc

this the tail light/turn signal/stop bulbs are grounded thru the shell of the bulb and then the socket.. then either to the tail light housing or to a third wire  

waynep712222 waynep712222
Enthusiast | Posts: 251 | Joined: 03/13
Posted: 07/02/13
07:56 PM

this is what i was talking about...  just in case i was correct and you got it all working...

cutting the ground wire connection to the side marker lights...

hooking each bulb to the turn/stop light on that side..

Sidemarkerlightsflashlikethis Zps7e46070e

wait.. how does the side marker lights get grounded if they are hooked to the turn signal wire and the tail light wire...

when the tail lights are OFF.. and the turn signal comes on.. the circuit is completed thru the brown wire thru tail light filament to the shell of the brake light bulb..

when the tail lights are on only..  the circuit works the other way.. the voltage is higher on the brown wire and the side marker bulb is grounded thru the yellow or green wire then the filament and then to the shell of the bulb..

now.. guess what..  when the tail lights are on..  and you operate the turn signal on that side...

when there is power on both the tail light wire  and the turn signal wires.. there is no electron flow thru the bulb and it goes dark...

thats why it flashes out of phase on newer cars...  

ldickersonc ldickersonc
User | Posts: 168 | Joined: 05/11
Posted: 07/03/13
02:30 AM

I really thought those side markers were turn signals, I have a lot fewer problems then I thought I did.