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Tuned Port Intake with a 4412 2bbl

  
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Tuned Port Intake with a 4412 2bbl

 
Defyler Defyler
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 12/12
Posted: 12/30/12
02:11 PM

Hi, I'm Jeff.  First time poster on CHP!  I have got an idea for something that I've been kicking around for a while.  I haven't seen it on the internet anywhere and I was wanted some gear heads to give me their opinion.  

Before I get into the details, yes I am aware that spending the rest of the money on an ECM, Fuel Pump and Painless Harness may yield more power.  I'm not posting to discuss that, I just want to talk about the novelty and how practical the application would be.

I have 2 concepts, both of which would be pretty easy to do if I had access to some machine tools.

A.)  I want to eliminate the throttle plate at the front of the upper plenum and build an adapter to bolt to that spot that has a plate to mount a 500 CFM 4412 Holley 2bbl.  

B.)  Purchase some jet extenders and modify the float to where I can mount a 4412 vertically and bolt it directly to the manifold just like the original throttle body.  That would let me use one of those sweet clamp on filters and it will still look like a TPI setup.

Anyone else out there thought about doing something like this?  The adapter could slope down a bit to give some hood clearance and you could use a bonnet and some ducting to move the air filter off to a better location.

I have some crude (very crude, lol) mockups I made in photoshop just to show you the ideas if you can't visualize it.  I'll post them once I figure out how.  


Thoughts, impressions, anything?
Jeff  

Defyler Defyler
New User | Posts: 2 | Joined: 12/12
Posted: 12/30/12
02:15 PM

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76Skylark 76Skylark
Guru | Posts: 853 | Joined: 12/11
Posted: 12/30/12
02:40 PM

Kinda funky,would be easier to use some side draft webber's, than the mods needed to turn a float bowl on it's side. Maybe a carb spacer machined to mount the carb in the middle of the plenum and block off the front opening. Just to be different could cost you some money,there are already several long(ram)tube manifolds with one or two carbs In line and tall(tunnel ram),side by side low (cross ram).  

pepsi1 pepsi1
Guru | Posts: 1718 | Joined: 09/11
Posted: 12/30/12
03:54 PM

Defyler welcome aboard:

  Either way you mount it (in the pictures) you will be starving cylinders. Which ones is the QUESTION? You would have to wet flow the set-up the way you want it. Then see what cylinders get shorted on fuel. Then which cylinders get too much fuel.
  If you had the hood clearance, you could block the front of the intake. Mount the Carburetor in the center of the plenum like a Tunnel Ram, and work with it from that point.
  There is No way you can pull a wet fuel "from the front" (GAS) that distance. Thats why you can move air in that volume. The fuuel will puddle and probably foul the first 3 or 4 spark plugs and  maybe even hydraulic the  front cylinders.
  Even trying to get that to work under pressure ie supercharger,blower etc. I have an idea, to make it work but it will take a lot of money for the research, Then is it worth all the expense?
  Its like Skylark said side draft carbs worked when they worked. But they leaked flooded the engine all the time, and smelled of gas.
  No matter what anyone think's. Your thinking, your using your head for something beside a hat rack...See if the Gov. has grants out there for something like that.
  If you are really serious about getting something like that to work. Always send yourself a cerified copy, and don't open it, Make sure you date it and have someone witness your signature... and put it in a safe place.

Bob  

Dave632 Dave632
Addict | Posts: 2217 | Joined: 07/08
Posted: 12/30/12
05:14 PM

It is nice that you are using your imagination but I personally don't think this is a good idea. The idea of fuel injection is to get a more precise amount of fuel to each cylinder. As Bob says this would not be the case with a setup like this.
I also have two ask why, or is it just curiosity. I just don't see the rewards here.  
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waynep71222 waynep71222
Enthusiast | Posts: 448 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 12/30/12
06:34 PM

the TPI intake plenum and runners are designed for DRY FLOW.. NOT WET FLOW...

the fuel vapor attempting to make the almost 180 degree bend after the 90 degree bend in the plenum is going to throw the fuel out of the airflow and stick it to the outer wall of the bend..  there will be puddles of fuel in the plenum..


you might be able to run a propane carb out in front of the throttle body..   so you could run propane or natural gas...

there were several natural gas race cars.. don't know if they still exist... compressed  natural gas as i recall is like 130 octane.. so you might be able to run extremely high compression to make good use of the natural gas.


there are a LOT of things that can be done to improve power with a TPI injected motor.. but the neat thing.. if its RUNNING PERFECT.. you can knock down some amazing  MPG numbers at legal speeds...

you are probably if you don't already have one.. want a scan tool that will talk with the TPI computer..  

BuzzLOL BuzzLOL
Enthusiast | Posts: 380 | Joined: 12/10
Posted: 12/30/12
09:53 PM

. Welcome Jeff,

.. GEEZ!!! I was hoping you wouldn't post any pictures... I was feeling ill just thinking about it... LOL!

.. OK, I'm back from vomiting...

.. Uh, what was your point in replacing a stock 600 CFM dry flow throttle body (about equal to a 650-700 CFM wet flow carb.) with a little 500 CFM carb.?? Those TPI setups don't flow very well with just dry air, cutting off power above 4500 RPMs, wet fuel/air would make it even worse. Back in the early days of TPI, we cut the divider out between the two bores of the stock throttle body and replaced the twin circular plates with a single carefully hand made oval blade allowing 1,000 CFM of air flow... epoxying in any cavities uncovered in the process... good for 1,000 HP...

.. As Pepsi pointed out, the TPI was intended for dry flow, you want to fill that plenum with a wet flow gas/air mixture. In other words, you're building a BOMB! In the event of an engine backfire up into the plenum, that plenum may not have been designed strong enough to contain the explosion. As TuffNuff will be glad to explain to you, there is a lot of safety engineering that goes into an induction setup that may not be obvious at first glance.

.. Also, a conventional tunnel ram with one or more carb.s will outperform the TPI setup in about any way, anyways... Summit Racing sells a complete Weiand dual quad street tunnel ram setup at a quite reasonable price that isn't too bad on gas, either... and your friends won't vomit when they see it... but they might mess their pants...

.. BTW, I used to have a 19' 'Jet boat' with a Ford 312 Thunderbird V8 which came with two marine-ized YZ sidedraft carb.s... same as the three sidedrafts that came on early 'Vettes w/ 6-banger straight engine... they never really gave any problems... even though the engine was on it's 3rd rebuild (.060" over)...  

76Skylark 76Skylark
Guru | Posts: 853 | Joined: 12/11
Posted: 01/01/13
12:45 PM

there is a nice looking Eddy side by side for a small block chevy at 250 bucks on Atl.CL today. another has 3 sets of aluminum heads at 350 a pair/new, just looking and a man could build a 350 w/aluminum heads with Parts on CL for around 500 bucks.  

BuzzLOL BuzzLOL
Enthusiast | Posts: 380 | Joined: 12/10
Posted: 01/01/13
10:03 PM

.. What are the aluminum heads? Have to be careful with Craig's list if it sounds too good to be true, lots of those guys are in Nigeria and just take your money and get no parts... have to be really careful... I know several people who would be interested in those heads if real... got a link?