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383 Engine build! Help Please

  
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383 Engine build! Help Please

 
Perk1964 Perk1964
New User | Posts: 1 | Joined: 11/12
Posted: 11/21/12
04:10 PM

I have a Summit 383 vortec block, 1pc rear main seal, Scat lightweight rotating assembly KB dished pistons, 6.0 forged connecting rods, arp cap style bolts, Chevy aluminum fast burn heads, 62cc, std oil pump, edelbrock performer RPM vortec intake, 750 speed demon vacuum sec, chevy performance pushrods, chevy 1.6 roller rockers, chevy performance roller lifters, msd pro billet distributor ready to run series'. Std head gasket, going for 9.5.1 cr. need help on a good cam!!!! The engine is going in a 1964 impala, 700r4 with shift kit, corvette servo, 2500 stall, 3.08 gears for now, I'm going to swap for 3.73 gears soon and posi traction. Thanks! Any suggestions for additions or replacement can be made. All the parts have been bought besides the cam. Grin  

pepsi1 pepsi1
Guru | Posts: 1718 | Joined: 09/11
Posted: 11/22/12
01:59 AM

Perk1964

That was one of my favorite body styles back in the day. My buddie had an SS with a 409/425. The 327 made them bad ass. too. But a BB was real a nice ride. With that being said...

1.Hold off on your Rear Gear Ratio choice until we can get a camshaft. Because we want the Correct Gear choice. The 700R4 O/D will kill a lot of your Rear Gear Ratio. Which You really want. You may need a 3:90 or 4:10 rear gear and still get good fuel mileage and very good performance.

2.Do you know about how much the Impala weights?

3.Do you need a complete retrofit kit for the cam?

4.How tall is the rear tire your going to use?

5.I'll tell you its hard to pick out a cam for someone else. I mean your going to be spending  approx. $400 on a cam so I want to be right to what you need. I don't want you to chase me. I'm an old guy...LOL...

6.Your 1.6 rockers make it difficult. Because a nice torquey cam will push your lift over .500 and thats about it for your stock valve springs, and you may have clearance problems under the  V/S retainer and seals.

Give us that info and you will go fast...

Bob  

Perk1964Impala Perk1964Impala
New User | Posts: 16 | Joined: 11/12
Posted: 11/22/12
05:21 AM

Hey this is Perk1964 my other account got closed accidently. I will wait on the gears, the car weighed 3,415lbs from factory with the 327 and powerglide. The engine is a true roller block vortec style one piece rear main seal. So I won't have to retrofit it. I'll be runnuing 31" tires on the back. I bought the 1.6 RR thinking I was going to run the chevy HOT cam. Then after some extensive research I found that some people like them and some say it's not a performance cam. I guess I need something to compare against. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Bob  

pepsi1 pepsi1
Guru | Posts: 1718 | Joined: 09/11
Posted: 11/22/12
11:29 AM

Perk1964Impala:

  Thats the Info I needed. I saw the Stage #2 Cam that may work but,I will run it through my system LATER Tonight. So hang Tight, I'll see what there is for atleast a couple selections.
  I figured it weighted about 3600lbs. with a driver. I was close! Give or take. I want to select a Cam that will snap your neck when you jump on the throttle. Then at the same time gasmileage. Grin  Cool
  Not having to retrofit the engine for a roller cam saves *** You can use some place else.
Heay Impala I've been at this stuff for 58 years. Do you want that Lopey Idle and That Rumpity-Rump Idle.I like it! But is that a big deal for you?  Grin  Cool
  Like I said with the 1.6 Roller Rockers it's a tough decision, because the Cams that really are good have a .490/.510 lift @1.5 R/Ratio. Then you get .522/.544 with the 1.6 R/Ratio. Thats way over the clearance on some the valve train parts. I spent some time running through the Cam Makers...LOL...I like Challenges...Enjoy your Turkey! So hang in there.  Grin  Cool
Bob
 
  PS: Just a little Note:
Thats why we try to tell young and upcoming Gear Heads Cams area Big part the of your Induction Set-Up. Too big a cam and the engine potential will never be seen! Too small a cam and the engine will never perform the way it should. The same goes for Carbs. Too Big or Too small. The Challenge is to get all the Parts to work in a combination...  

Perk1964Impala Perk1964Impala
New User | Posts: 16 | Joined: 11/12
Posted: 11/22/12
03:34 PM

Thanks ALOT!!!!!! Like I said I have the rockers ordered them from Summit who got a Chevy dealer to send them to me. I might be able to return them if you have a better setup. By the way I do love the Lopey idle. I'm learning more and more about car engines on the go. I was an aircraft mechanic in the USAF. Now I'm an industrial mechanic for a power company. I'm pretty mechanically inclined. Once again thanks and enjoy your Thanksgiving.  

pepsi1 pepsi1
Guru | Posts: 1718 | Joined: 09/11
Posted: 11/23/12
12:27 PM

Perk1964Impala:

  I would like to thank you for Protecting us and Keeping Our Jets Ready to go if we needed them. While you were in the Air Force. I was a combat Vet in VietNam in the US Marine Corp. I served as A Medic on a Huey Gun Ship. Thanks again.

Bob  

pepsi1 pepsi1
Guru | Posts: 1718 | Joined: 09/11
Posted: 11/23/12
01:44 PM

Perk1964Impala:
  This is my (3rd) attempt to reply to this post. Each time I hit reply it dissapered. I don't want to hear any Funny Comments as It is not Funny...LOL...

  Hi Perk: Going to try this again. 4Th attempt!
Here is the problem I encountered, looking for a Cam. The 1.6 Rocker arm Ratio you already have is not leaving you any choices because the Limiting factor is the Stock Valve Springs on the Aluminum Vortec Heads.
  I found a Set of Crane Cams Valve Springs. You don't have to machine the spring pockets. The P/N for the Crane V/S 271-99846-16. Jeg's price $195.99. Then you have to purchase Retainers,and new 7* or10* keepers, and spring cups for the Aluminum heads...
  The Fast Burn Vortec stock Valve Springs are only good to .530 Max. Lift. Even the LT-4 Hot Cam it will be .005 below the max lift. That cam is .525
  There is NO ROOM should you miss a gear, or a Driveline Failure. Whatever.
You have a decission to make as to what you want to do.
1.Return the 1.6 Rocker arms for a 1.5 roller rocker. Grin  Cool
2.Replace the Valve Springs and the added cost....
  Let me Know what you want to Do Perk1964. I can look for some Roller Cams for you to choose from...So we can get you building your engine...

Bob  

Perk1964Impala Perk1964Impala
New User | Posts: 16 | Joined: 11/12
Posted: 11/23/12
04:29 PM

Well Bob I called Summit and they said I could swap them out. I'm going to use 1.5 Proform rollers 1.5 p/n PRO-66914. It seems like the logical way to me, plus they are half the price of the GM brand. Once Again Thanks!  

pepsi1 pepsi1
Guru | Posts: 1718 | Joined: 09/11
Posted: 11/23/12
08:48 PM

Perk1964Impala:
  That is the most logical way to get out of this. Anything with a GM name on it will cost you about 1/5 again as much as any other brand name part. I believe the GM Roller Rockers are made by Crane Cams or Lunati.
  Some years back you could buy a (2) pack of Crane Roller Rockes. They also has a series called the Wide Body. They were nice the only thing you could put (2) of them next to each other. It was impossible to get a socket between them to retorque the heads.
  I know it's too late now. I have a shaft mount Roller Rocker Arms. Its a straight complete 1.5 NO-OFFSET. They are brand new in the box. If you know of anyone that needs them please PM me

Bob  

pepsi1 pepsi1
Guru | Posts: 1718 | Joined: 09/11
Posted: 11/23/12
09:11 PM

Perk1964Impala:
 
  Hi PerkI have narrowed it down to (2) Comp Cams. They will get the job done.
They are from the Xtreme Energy 4X4 series camshafts.

1.    Comp Cams P/N 08-414-8 Grind # X4280HR Exreme Grind 4X4
     .230/.234 duration @.050  .474/474 Lift with 1.5 Roller Rocker.
     Lobe Seperation 111*  intake Center/Line 107*
     RPM Range 1800-5800 RPM
     Needs Headers
     3:73-4:10 Rear Gears
     2,000-2,500 RPM Torque Convertor
     Rough idle

2.    Comp Cams  P/N 08-41308  Grind # X4270HR  Xtreme Energy 4X4
     .220/.224 duration @.050   .474/.474 Lift with a 1.5 Roller Rocker.
     Lobe seperation 111*
     Intake Center/line 107*
     RPM Range 1500-5500 RPM
     Needs Headers
     3:734-4:10 Rear Gears
     2,000-2,500 RPM Torque Convertor
     Noticeable idle.
If you have any questions ask away....These should work nice with a heavy car.

Bob  

Perk1964Impala Perk1964Impala
New User | Posts: 16 | Joined: 11/12
Posted: 11/24/12
07:56 AM

I'm guessing the use of a 4X4 cam would be for torque ability to get the car moving on the low end? What type of vacuum am I going to see? And what HP/Torque range should I be looking for. Comp hads a cam module setup on thier site and I will plug these cams in later.  

pepsi1 pepsi1
Guru | Posts: 1718 | Joined: 09/11
Posted: 11/24/12
10:14 PM

Perk1964Impala:

  (3) Things to remember. (1) You are moving a land Yacht, not a 2600 Pro-Stock car. (2) A cam by any other name is still a Cam, OKAY! Get that CHIT out of your mind. (3)I've used lesser cams in engines, and made a lot of power. With that said.
  I've seen BBC marine (Water) engines used for a 1/4 mile Drag Race Cars. There is NO Right or Wrong as to where an engine comes from. As long as it performs the way you want.
  You'll be surprised at the way those cams pull. With the 4:10:1 Rear Gear the 62cc head, and if you run a 9.020 deck you should have enough HP to gt you to the grocery store...LOL...
  Perk: I can only suggest what you need. It's your money I've been at this for 58 years now. But it's all up to you. Confused  

Bob  

pepsi1 pepsi1
Guru | Posts: 1718 | Joined: 09/11
Posted: 11/24/12
10:32 PM

Perk1964Impala:

  The (2) different cams I speced for you are very good cams. If you use them fine if not fine. Remember you can't push those heads any further then you are right now. The valve springs are go only until.530 lift. I forgot to ask if the Heads are NEW? If not let us know.
  If you want you can change the springs, and put a bigger cam in. Here is what you will run into. Your Valve Spring Retainers will hit the top of the Valve Guide. Then you will need to have the valve spring pockets will need to be machined for a bigger OD V/S.
  You will need more Rear Gear, then driving the car on the street becomes very marginal at best. So the engine RPM will go higher. Valve to Piston clearance Becomes an issue.
  Those heads are good, but they are not the best. The GM LT-1 Hot Cam is really an old style Cam. The Cam goes back 20 years that I know of. Again its your money.

Bob  

pepsi1 pepsi1
Guru | Posts: 1718 | Joined: 09/11
Posted: 11/24/12
10:59 PM

Perk1964Impala:

  I have to mention this. I spent almost (4) months with a young kid. This time last year. He bought a Dart short block. No Cam. Heads be bought were Trick Flows. He then bought a Comp Cam. He installed the cam straight up and the valves hit the pistons. I told him what he had to do to correct it. Plus he didn't degree the cam yet. So I know the valves hitting the pistons will lock the engine up! He spent a lot of money on High Dollar parts. With that said!
  I don't hear anything from him for (2) weeks. He PM's me, and tells me he learned that Comp Cams made their cams with (8*) of advance in them. Thats what Comp Cams told him. So he tells me he retarded the Cam to get the valve to piston clearance he needed. I tried to tell him he just moved the point of when the valves will hit the pistons. At a very High Rate of Speed! I told him he was asking for trouble.
  Now I get the story the guys at happy hour told him to do it. Oh Yeah he retarded the Cam, and he had the clearance he said he needed. I asked him if he put clay on the top of the piston. He was honest he said NO. I have the clearance I need. He was convinced he had the Valve to Piston clearance he needed. I said fine. He said when I'm done I'm taking it to a wheel dyno.
  He drove it to a wheel dyno in south jersey I was familar with. (Those guys don't care if you blow it up) you either pay to clean it up or you clean it yourself. He never got back to me. His Mother Pm's me. He blew the engine into a thousand pieces on the wheel dyno. She asked me who would be responsible. I told her your son didn't want to listen to me. He listened to the Happy Hour Guys. Then she told me he had over $30,000 in the car he rebuilt. It was a 1986 Monte Carlo SS. She told me the tow bill from south jersey to where they live was over $500. She said plus he paid to clean up the mess. Insult to injury. I just told her he was lucky he didn't get hurt! Wink

Bob  

68scott385 68scott385
Guru | Posts: 1990 | Joined: 10/09
Posted: 11/24/12
11:10 PM

experience is the best teacher...

sometimes the lessons are expensive

I find it funny how kids don't want to listen to experience but complain when chit blows up in their face.  
68scott385 68scott385 68scott385

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