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Holley 4165 models (List#6210's - 6213's)

  
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Holley 4165 models (List#6210's - 6213's)

 
Chevlac Chevlac
New User | Posts: 11 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 03/25/12
11:51 AM

I first want say that I'm new to this forum. But, I've been a member of another
forum for a few years. I recently posted on that forum about the Holley carbs I've
named in this "thread's 'Subject:' heading." I asked the fellow members of that
forum about the idea of combining a (List#6210) Holley speadbore's outer parts with
the main body & metering bodies of a (List#6212). Well, I didn't get a single "re-
sponse" to the question in 3 weeks, so I thought I'd ask here & find out if anyone
here would know. Would such an idea even work? For a better "clue" as for what I'm
planning, here goes; I Have a rather "old" looking Holley "List # 6210" 650 cfm carb that will need a major "rebuild". I then bought a "List # 6212" 800 cfm carb after I found out (after reading other posts) that a 650 cfm carb would not work well on an engine with more than 400 *** of displacement. But, the 800 cfm carb
as is won't fit onto my engine. The engine is a late '70's G.M. that's "emissions"
controled with an e.g.r. valve mounted very near the back side of the carb. The original "Quadrajet" just fit. So, I thought of useing the float bowls, fuel transfer tube & base of the 6210 to "convert" the 6212 into an "emissions legal"
800 cfm mechanical secondary double pumper spreadbore carb. That way, I can also
install a "manual choke kit" onto the carb. I did find out that there's no such
"choke kit" availible for the 650 cfm spreadbore carb, but there are many for the
800 cfm versions. So... does anyone know if this'll work?  

waynep7122 waynep7122
Guru | Posts: 1130 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 03/25/12
12:29 PM

a 650 carb  WILL work on an over 400 cubic inch engine..  you could put a 390 CFM carb on a 454.. and it would work.. would it make max power .. probably not...  would it run out of carb.. probably..  but a 650 should work..

if you want to swap base plate and float bowls.. i would check to see if the other main body is drilled for the same passages..

i don't have both of those to compare..  i know i have one in my storage locker..


i have not compared the square bore and the spread bore choke linkage.. it should come off with just 3 screws.. so it might be transferable..

lay the parts out.. if you want to swap things around..

you might just want to put the emissions carb on after you clean and rebuilt it..

i am still confused with your post..    and exactly what you are wanting to ***

if you have a vacuum secondary carb.. it cannot be made into a double pumper..  as the passages for the secondary accelerator pump are not there..

you will get more of an answer here..

please.. describe the carbs exactly.. and exactly which parts..

float bowl.. metering block.. main body..  metering block or plate.. float bowl..

---------------------base plate------------------------------  

Chevlac Chevlac
New User | Posts: 11 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 03/25/12
12:57 PM

Hello, I think you may be a bit "misinformed" here. Both of the Holley carbs I have
are "Spreadbore"'s They both share the same model # (4165) & are both mechanical
secondary double pumpers. The 650 cfm unit is a single fuel line inlet model, with
side hung floats & the 800 cfm version is a dual fuel line model with the large,
center hung float bowls. Those large bowls won't work on an e.g.r. equipped intake
manifold. They make the carb too long to fit. The engine I'm using has almost 454
inches of displacement. I'm keeping the "Brand" of engine a secret here. I will say
that It is a G.M. originated engine & did come as stock in a certain "Brand" of G.M. car in the late '70's.  

pepsi1 pepsi1
Guru | Posts: 1718 | Joined: 09/11
Posted: 03/25/12
01:24 PM

Chevlac welcome:

Your correct in you findings. I have the 650 Holley and the 850 Holley spreadbores they are chokeless double pumpers. I don't know if I can even help you as I have grave yard of holley parts. Did you try their website? Order their catalog on cd.
That really sucks because they are a good carb...  

waynep7122 waynep7122
Guru | Posts: 1130 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 03/25/12
04:18 PM

i have a holley service parts manual laying round here someplace...  but its part numbers only.. nothing but a single blow up diagram.. for each model range of carb..  

it just takes a bunch of doing to photocopy the blow up diagrams.. then compare the parts lists to see if they are similar..

its a LOT easier with the carb's right in front of you..  

Chevlac Chevlac
New User | Posts: 11 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 03/25/12
05:21 PM

Yes, yes it is. And I just happen to have them both right here. The 650cfm (List#
6210) is sitting on the box that has the 800 cfm (List#6212) in it. I have yet to
order a "rebuild kit" for the 650 untill I know for sure that this idea will work.
So far, it looks like it will. But, then I haven't put any tools to either carb yet. Just started to clean up the parts I planned to "swap over" from the 650 carb.
To answer some others who may be asking, yes, Holley did make a few different sizes
of the "Spreadbore" mechanical secondary double pumper carburetor. Most of them came
in the "Model# 4165" version. Some did however come as a "Vacuum secondary" version,
but they had the "Model# 4175" number & are a bit different. I was informed that the
(List#6212) 800 cfm version was made quite a while ago & hasen't been made in a few
decades now. That might make finding one now, a rare event. In fact, so far I only
met one person in my area that even knows that they actually were made once. He had
one a long time ago that got stollen from him. He did say that "they are a real good
carb, but the secondary cam will need changeing if you want to drive faster than
30 mph without starting to get into the secondaries." He said that if you do "go into the secondaries, you can kiss any efforts of fuel economy good bye. But man,
that carb is blast to use."  

waynep7122 waynep7122
Guru | Posts: 1130 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 03/25/12
07:47 PM

let me put up some info.. i will have to break out the scanner also...

there are 4 versions/ calibrations  of the R6210      and as you know.. 650 CFM.. 327-402 automatic/manual (so it should work on a big block..  as it came on them..

R6210.

R6210 A

R6210 AA or 2A

R6210 AAA or 3A..
above use a holley 4-241 gasket set  or a renew kit of 3-605


the 6212 only shows one...  800 CFM double pumper manual choke...

this one shows a holley gasket set of 4-241 and a renew kit of 3-606


a 4165 as i recall has a full sized secondary metering block..   the 4175 has a secondary metering plate.. where the secondary float bowl seals right to the back of the carb main body.. the metering plate is held in place with clutch head screws... so the back of the carb is shorter..  by about 5/8 of an inch...

you also have.. if you are doing what i think you are doing.. the ability to make an EGR extension plate..  so you can space it back slightly to get the bigger carb on..  

Chevlac Chevlac
New User | Posts: 11 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 03/26/12
11:25 AM

waynep7122, You have me a bit confused; What's an EGR extension plate? Also, how
much different are the renew kits? I'm assuming that they are actually very close
to being the same except that the 3-606 has a "few" things a bit different because
of the 6212's larger sized jets. That shouldn't be a big issue here. As I plan to
use the main body of the 800 cfm carb (along with it's metering bodies) to "build"
an "emissions compatible" single fuel inlet version of the 6212 & also have the
ability to install a manual choke kit on it. As you may know, most of the List#6212
carbs didn't come with a choke but did have the "horn" on them. I also would like
to keep the "stock" look of the List#6210's. Another version of the Holley "Spreadbore" carbs is the List#7002. The guy I bought the 6212 from, has a
#7002 for sale for $100 right now on "Craigslist.com" in "Frankfort, N.Y."
I cannot use that model because of the lack of the secondary metering body &
accelerator pump. Also, what's the chance of me converting this carb into a "four
corner" adjustable carb? Can the secondary metering body be fitted with the "idle
enrichment" screws, or will I need to try & find a metering body that'll fit the
carb that has them in it?  

76Skylark 76Skylark
Guru | Posts: 854 | Joined: 12/11
Posted: 03/26/12
04:22 PM

I tried to put Center pivot float bowls on my Spread Bore dbl.pump and that didn't work and I tried a lot of combo's .It being a Spread Bore you should be able to get it to pass anybody's emissions test.OK listen I am a HUGE Fan Of Holley's And Spread Bore Carbs.I feel that 4 corner Idle Carbs are for Racing and are too much work to use on the street and think you can pass Emissions, the Tip in is just to sudden and harder to control, that is a great carb (spread bore dbl pump) learn it build it use it.  

Chevlac Chevlac
New User | Posts: 11 | Joined: 03/12
Posted: 03/26/12
05:39 PM

Thanks, "76Skylark". The center pivot bowls I have are what came with the 800 cfm
(List#6212) carb & they are too big for the engine I plan to mount that carb on to.
Also, you're probably right about the "Spreadbore" double pumper Holley carbs being
a "great" carb to work on, with & use for a street engine. I most likely won't try
to "mess around" with "four corner" idle adjustment & leave "well enough alone".
So far though, I've learned a whole lot more in one day here than I ever did any-
where else. Thanks for all of the help so far.