High torque starter issue on 67 Camaro Big Block

I am replacing my starter in my 1967 Camaro big block 4-speed, to a 3hp mini-high torque.  My previous was giving me starting issues, needed to turn ignition switch on multiple times to start.  I am running with MSD box and Pro Billet Distributor.  This install I will be adding a Heat shield and starter harness.  
I was surprised to see on the previous install that there were two (2) red wires to the "BATT" post on the solenoid, plus the battery positive cable.  There was also a White on the lower soleniod post, which I do not believe is needed.  My issue is that after connecting the starter, in turning the ignition key, the starer will not engage. I have "bench" tested the starter and all is OK.  Now I am asking is may ignition switch OK???  Also, why do I have 2 red wires plus +batt cable on the top post from old install?  The harness is only calling for one Red, and the Purple to the spade terminal.  I am running with a updated wiring harness in my Camaro.
Any help is appreciated.  

Some chevys had a ground wire on the solenoid also. If your solenoid is grounded to the frame via the second terminal then white wire is not needed. If not then you should connect it. Also one of the other red wires probably goes to the alternator for charging the battery. If so then that one is needed also. The second red wire I would only guess that something as picking up battery power from there.  

did your updated wiring harness come with a updated wiring diagram???????  so you know what when where why???

first..   there has been a LOT of similar problems on the various forums...

with MSD ignition...   the ONLY wire to the positive side of  the coil is the Orange wire from the MSD box.  if you hook a 12 volt wire to the positive side of the coil.. you probably will blow out the MSD unit..


early style ignition switches break the contact to the IGN1 wire when the key is turned to the cranking position..  this requires either a second connector on the ignition switch.. or the R terminal on the starter solenoid to apply full battery voltage to the ignition coil while cranking..


there are later style dash mounted ignition switches from like a 75 chevy van.. that will mount right in your dash  board.. there are also replacement sockets for the back with the newer style connector and you can de-pin your existing the connector and move the wires to the new connector...

the 75 model year ignitions switches DO NOT Break the contact to the IGN 1 circuit when the key is turned to the cranking position..  this change is because they were HEI equipped..    you might want to change out the wire between the ignition and the bulk head connector.. and from the engine side of the bulk head connector to the MSD box..

since you are installing a mini starter.. you won't have an R terminal to hook up to...   you can do this with a relay.

i covered this later ignition switch swap a while back..  i still have the numbers around if you would like to do this to simplify the 67 ignition system.. bring it up to date...   you may also want to double up the wiring from the battery to the inside of the car.. and this might be what the secondary wiring is on the starter solenoid with the up graded harness..

usually in a 67.. the positive goes to a small terminal block behind the battery.. then over to the horn relay.. and then into the harness and into the car..   this is a LONG way for the demands of a new ignition system.. and all the newer accessories people install..


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in addition .. you might want to install a LOAD dropping relay to power the starter solenoid control wire..   so the amp load from the ignition switch is reduced to 3 to 5 amps..   with the relay switching the full load needed for the solenoid to pull the plunger in and engage the starter...


there are camaro wiring diagrams all over the net if you know what to search for if you don't have one...  

The new harness was already installed when I purchased the car.  So I do not have the schematic but will get one.

I am a bit lost as to your "de-pin" of igniton switch.  My igniton switch is a stock 1967/68 vintage, so are you sayiing this should get repalaced?  I am running a mini starter so the R terminal is not used.  The harness I was referning to is a "Starter" harness with the RED/Purple connecitons only and then a quick disconnect to the car wires.  

The second (#12 ga)red does run to the horn/relay junciton and the Heavy Red (#10 ga)runs to the power distribution next to the horn relay at the radiator support.  I guess I just need to get a volt meter and starting chasing lines.  Interesting that all was some what working with the old mini but will not go now????

Any other thougths are appreciated.  

this is just an idea, & i use it.   wire your ignition & starter circuits seperatley.   this way you can get the motor spining freely, & then throw the switch for the ignition.   if you hide the switch somewhere, it might stop a thief one day too.   best of luck.  
JOE,   pro, shade tree, redneck, get her done!...welder

the 67 ignition switch...





the  replacement ignition for the 75 chevy van.. dash mounted ignition...



this is the proper connector for the later switch...  





in this image for the column mounted ignition switches.. you can see the terminals are retained by a small finger on the back.. the finger is easily depressed with some kind of proper sized tool when you are pushing the terminal in from the back while using the tool.. then you can pull the terminal back with the wire..   straighten the  finger up.. and then insert it into the proper cavity on the new connector body..

 

this is wired slightly differently...

i have covered this is other posts..

but there are 2 red wires that get direct battery power...

the pink goes to the HEI or to the MSD box..   NOT THE COIL on MSD equipped cars..  again.. ONLY the Orange wire from the MSD goes to the (+) coil..    with the newer switch.. the PINK wire does NOT loose power when the key is turned to the cranking position..

the purple wire goes to the starter S terminal...

i can describe the other wires location..

i am NOT telling you to do this. but others have tried it..  and it has worked..

 

Many thanks for the info.  Will work on it this weekend.
Just one other note, BATTERY is in the trunk, previous owner had install.  Could I be loosing volts somewhere?
I think I may relocate battery back up front.  

trunk mounted batteries are the going thing...

i am taking that you have a remote battery shut off switch...   through the rear panel...   or inside if you are NOT racing the car..

a green shut off knob will work also...



the normal battery shut off switches in my opinion.. do not really have enough current flow capability for high compression engines..  i know they are used all the time.. so my opinion is probably moot..

i would clean the cable ends .. make sure that any connections are properly tight..

with a digital volt meter.. set to 20 volts DC scale...   you can find imperfect connections..

if you get the engine running..   and the headlights on.. so there is electrical load active..

1.  test between the positive and negative battery posts...  14.1 to 14.7 volts... is expected..

2.  test between the negative battery post and the engine block..  0.04 volts is expected...  

3. test between the negative battery post and the body...     0.02 volts is expected..

4.  test between the engine block and the body... 0.02 volts is expected..

ok... so you have a trunk mounted battery.. .  where is the negative battery grounded to??????

the body????   or did you run a LONG ground cable to the engine block???

if you ran the negative battery cable to the body in the trunk area...    did you run a matching thickness cable from the body to the engine up in the front???   the massive amount of electrons has to get to the front of the car to crank the engine..

when the engine starts..  the alternator output is through the ground... yep.. electrons flow from ground to the positive..

can you do tests 2. 3. 4... even with modifications to where you are testing.. with the engine cranking..   any of them should show less than 1.0 volts while cranking..  

let me explain farther..   its a slow evening.. and there are only elvis movies on..

your digital volt meter.. measures the difference in voltage between the places you probe..  test across the battery.. you get 12.65 on a fully charged battery..   with the engine running. and the alternator charging properly .. you should have just over 14.1 volts..

but what is the 0.04 and 0.02 volt reading mean..   copper wire has slight resistance to it..

when you have the engine running and the headlights ON...   there is current flowing through the circuit..  if there is resistance.. you will measure a slight voltage..  there.. like 0.04 or 0.02..   if you get more than that.. either you have dirty connections.. loose connections.. or the wire feeding that side of the circuit is TOO SMALL..


so.. if you have dirty connections..   when you measure..  you may have more than 1.0 volt.. i have found some cars that had 8.5 volts between the engine and the body.. do to missing ground cables between the firewall and the engine..

this 8.5 volt measurement means that you were only getting about 5 volts through the circuit..  probably not enough to operate the circuits..  

this quick test with a digital volt meter only takes a few seconds...  and saves HOURS and DAYS of hair pulling wondering what's going on..

test your daily driver..  then test your camaro..  

if you are using battery switches.. and you are having voltage drop issues through the switch when cranking..  you do have the option of creating a buss bar to mount the plates to..  with the cable attached to that.. and a different buss bar on the other side...   with the control rod.. operating both switches at the same time..  since they are usually snap.. this should work just fine..  being careful to evenly design the cable attachment point to the 2 switch terminals close to the same distance..  so the electrons which like to take the shortest route.. don't all try to flow through just one..   if you think i am barking up the wrong tree.. look at the real amp ratings of the switches..   i spent a bunch of years working on a friends 104 foot boat.. over the years of hard staring problems.. we got to the point of using just the green knobs on the batteries to control which ones were connected for starting.. and used a conventional rotary battery selector for recharging from the 12 volt alternator on the 25KW gen set or the 35KW gen set or the 5Kw gen set..  yep.. it was an engine room nightmare..  i even went as far as installing a panel full of the remote starter buttons.. the marine versions to a single analog volt meter to test individual batteries..  that was easy.. just a short length of wire from each of the individual wires to the batteries..  this way the volt meter did not run the batteries down...  this still left dealing with a surface charge..  but there was a portable battery load tester laying nearby always..  when i did this.. digital volt meters were still expensive..  we only had 6 8D batteries to deal with...

for those interested.. the main engines were detroit 6-71s.. one counter rotating..  the 25KW was a ford layman 4 cylinder diesel.. the 35 was a perkins 354...  the 5Kw.. was a 4 cylinder Benz diesel.. i miss that boat.. it was a LOT of work.. but also a LOT of fun.. just glad it was not mine.. it was a HUGE hole in the water to pour money into.. over 20 years.. it  required about 2 million dollars cash to keep it docked.. worked on.. and fuel costs..  and we rarely left the dock..