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78 firebird suspension questions ACAJOE  
iremetal
New User | Posts: 8 | Joined: 10/04
Posted: 10/31/04
08:57 AM

Hey, I thought I'd take you up on your offer ACAJOE.


I was wondering if you have done any work on the front end suspension of that '79 espirit. My steering slacks like crazy and I am planning on changing the bushings to polyurethane and changing the pitman arms for some Moog parts, but I thought maybe you would have some insight into the problem. Ive been told to get parts from a z28 to put in, such as the steering column or box.


Further, I managed to get some better driveability out of the car by putting 235p60 tires on the front and 275p60's in the back. Then the rear tires started to rub the wheel wells so I put in air shocks to raise the rear end, to compensate for the body roll. I suppose an anti sway kit would help reduce the rub also (the air shocks have to be filled up again every once in a while, and make the ride kind of harsh).


Any thoughts on either problem?

 

 
ACAJOE
New User | Posts: 26 | Joined: 10/04
Posted: 10/31/04
10:40 AM

Yes. The car came with 15" rims. I believe they are called pontiac ralley rims? BUt i don't care for them much because they limit tire choice. I have 225/60/15 titres, these aren't bad just not what I'm used too from my wife's other car.


The suspension is all new soft parts up front. Bushings/ ball joints/ pitman arm/ idler arm/ tie rod ends along with bearings and brake parts all replaced. Everything is stock replacement. I would have liked to use polyurethane but i didn't have the money back then and I wanted everthing to be done so it wwasn't an every weekend job. The steering is not sloppy now but very overpowered as all GM car and trucks were. A Z28 steering box may have a reduced ratio gear in it but if it is worn internally, You'll just have high effort, sloppy steering. If you change it make sure you don't import this problem.


One thing I did for, which I'm sorry now, is cut the coil springs two turns on either side. I did make the car a little lower and it looks better with the 225/60 tires, but the suspension was not designed to have ball joints constantly working around this angle. The car always feels a bit odd, going into corners and maintaining a straight line. Cutting just one coil on each side might be fine though. The real solution for me is new springs at all four corners.


I have a factory rear sway bar and an 1 1/4 " front sway bar to put on. I don't think I'll use either since I would need new bushings anyway. Instead I'm going to order a new 1 1/4" bar for the front and a 1" bar for the back. The rear sway bar might help with rubbing that occurs when you go around a corner as would spring shackle bushings/ springs. It seems alot of these cars got pounded in life and spring sag goes right along with that.


Good Luck

 

 
gearman
Enthusiast | Posts: 270 | Joined: 08/04
Posted: 11/01/04
06:38 AM

Without drop spindels doesent cutting the coils raise hell with the camber which changes the toe also? I souppose you can put a lot of shims in to correct this problem.Did you allign it after this?  


 
ACAJOE2
New User | Posts: 31 | Joined: 10/04
Posted: 11/01/04
09:15 AM

Yes, WHich is why it is so funky to drive. Cutting coils is the poormans approach. Cutting one turn of the coil isn't too bad bad cutting two turn off is just too much. I forget what it took to align it but I never liked the result. Drop spindles have come down in price since then so in a few months I'll fix it right.


I bought this car for my wife years ago and as always it's been an adventure. She even managed to weld a few parts in the trans some years back. That began her education into proper fluid check intervals.


The only thing we haven't delved into is the rearend. It will need a posi sometime soon. Peg leggin' is no fun!


 

 

 
iremetal
New User | Posts: 8 | Joined: 10/04
Posted: 11/02/04
08:48 PM

The advice on the steering box was to rebuild it with 87 camaro or firebird steering which had a 12:1 ratio. I quote


"The 12:1 steering box from a 3rd gen car (IROC/TA/GTA) can be used on the 2nd gen for very fast response... (list of models where these can be found) ... For installation, you need a hybrid coupler to attach the new box to the steering column and metric fittings so you can use your current compression fitting hoses. Your stock Pitman arm can be used. As for the pump, you can swap flow control assemblies because the late model pump usually has the wrong brackets. Another option would be to have your steering box rebuilt with the guts from a 3rd gen box... the original box mounting can be used and no major modifications are necessary..."


As for springs, instead of cutting them I was told that some z28 front springs would do the trick, i havent looked into their specs any further than that however.


Actually I have my 235's AND my s275's on those original rally wheels. i dont remember if they are 15x7 or 15x8 i think they would have to be 15x8 to fit the 275's. Also, would a lower profile tire (for my next tire change) reduce rubbing further? Id like to get some 16-17 inch wheels with a lower profile, but that sort of investment at this point is out of the question.


Thank you, im glad to hear that the front end work will be worth the money, i've heard some stories where the steering was still bad after all the work done.

 

 
ACAJOE2
New User | Posts: 31 | Joined: 10/04
Posted: 11/03/04
01:54 AM

Swapping steering boxes is someting yet to feel a need for. the quote in your post sounded like the Chevy high performance article from a year or two ago. I remember the bit about converting the metric fittings to SAE. I would still put it last on the list until you are sure everything else is up to snuff ( tie rods ball joint bushings ect.).


The cost of new springs is very resonable these days, new ones are the way to go. I'm still not convince on the idea of changing ride height solely with a spring change though. If you want more clearance stock height springs at and increased spring rate sounds like a good direction for you. With the eventuality of 16 or 17 inch wheels lowering is not the way to go. 16 -17 inch wheels with the right sidewall will fill up the wheel wells and look great. When the time comes My wife wants to put a set of Torque thrust II's on to match the corvette. After that I will decide if a steering ratio change is in order.


Lower profile tires of the same rim diameter make steering feedback diminish. the reduced rolling diameter of the tire reduces the contact patch lenght making it easier to turn the wheel even when you increase width. I like the road feel of large rolling diameter tires even at the sacrifice of width, the only way to get there and look cool is bigger rims. It's a shame they are so expensive.


 I'm sure my experience would translate better if I hadn't cut those springs.


good luck , I've been busy putting new weather stripping on the '79.

 

 
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