I work at a machine shop for the past 19 years & I would suggest building a stout 350 over the stroker route. Building a stroker properly is more involved and more costly than most people realize. You can get more torque from a stroker but you can get just a much HP from a 350 if you build it right. I have a strong 350 in my 69 Camaro that runs low 12's in the 1/4 mile. Some people are just stuck on the whole "stroker" idea & can't be talked out of it though. Good luck which ever way you go.  

Ok Dave you are getting spaced out here. Ok lets start with the bottom end crank, rods, pistons, and the cam once you really figure it out as to what you want then this will all come together the 383 is a good motor torquey and strong but, do you have a good machine shop you trust? See as with anyone else you talk to they will say the same thing. Do this first look at your budget that will determine how much you will be doin. Then be realistic with the time frame you are working on so that you wont be rushing i can tell you a  million things but you tell me which project is in reach. Hope this is helping you to clear the air. Take care.  

but you can get just a much HP from a 350 if you build it right. I have a strong 350 in my 69 Camaro that runs low 12's in the 1/4 mile.

Here is a different opinon off the net:

Overall, I'm quite pleased with the new motor.  The car definately pulls harder all the way down the track and of course, goes quicker and faster.  It looks like the changes that I made improved ET by at least .5 seconds and mph went up by around 5 mph which accomplishes my goal of running mid-low 11's.  I feel that this is a very good improvement considering that the only real change was a new rotating assembly. 

Here's a table that summarizes the changes:  

Some of the changes there are a big part of why the #'s are better w/ the stroker. Mainly the increased compression. If the 350 was buitlt @ 10 & 3/4 compression it would run better #'s. Also the 1.6 rockers vs. the 1.5 increase the camshaft output a bit also. The stroker is a good engine if you have the money to go that route. The 350 built properly will run w/ the stroker for the most part & stay together longer as well cost quite a bit less.  

Is there not some post missing, I thought we talked about the tires last time, but do not see those post?

Some of the changes there are a big part of why the #'s are better w/ the stroker

Agree.

Mainly the increased compression.

Disagree, IMO I think the stroke is the main reason

 If the 350 was buitlt @ 10 & 3/4 compression it would run better #'s. Also the 1.6 rockers vs. the 1.5 increase the camshaft output a bit also.

Agree.

The stroker is a good engine if you have the money to go that route

The difference between a stroker and a stock stock is the cost of the crank, under $200 for a cast steel scat crank. If your doing a rebuild, your buying pistons anyway, and 383 pistons may be $50-$100 more or even less depending on the combo. 618CP .125 dome 350 10.7:1 hypertech speedpros are @ $220 from PAW and 624CP .100 dome 383 11.5:1 are @ $237, 860CP flat tops 10.3:1 383 are @ 234. The block you can gring yourself with a die grinder as well as the rods can be ground on a bench grinder (usually no more than 2 rods need to be ground if at all to clear the cam). Or a shop can do it for @ $50. ( if you run 400 rod, no grinding at all-rod bolts are shorter, and you can run 350 pistons, Scat rods also no grinding, or less grinding than stock rods.) 

The 350 built properly will run w/ the stroker for the most part & stay together longer as well cost quite a bit less.

Agree and disagree. Now let look at your Camaro.

I have a strong 350 in my 69 Camaro that runs low 12's in the 1/4 mile.

IMO assuming it runs 12.20's (low 12's) and the car weighs 3400 lbs. Then we can guess it has 370 rwhp. Now taking in account 20% loss for friction through the drivetrain. ( the tranny, rearend, driveshaft etc.) It should have 463 at the flywheel. Now a 463 hp 350 is making @ 1.32 hp per cubic inch. Now take that combo making 1.32 hp per ci and put in 383 cubic inches. Now you have 505 flywheel hp, 404 rwhp and the car can go as quick as 11.84/115 mph, a 0.36 improvement, and 42 flywheel hp increase. Assuming your comp goes up also, you should go faster. 

Now lets look at the car in the example off the net. It is a Nova, so lets say it also weighs 3400 lbs. As a 350 it ran 12.0/112 mph making 389 rwhp and 486 fwhp. As a 383 it ran 11.41/118mph making 452 rwhp and 565 fwhp. A difference of 79 additional fwhp. Now as a 350 it made 1.38 hp per ci, and as a 383 it made 1.47 hp per ci. So taking 383 and using 1.38 it should have made 528 fwhp. Now take 528 hp from 565 hp and we have a difference of 37 fwhp. Which can be credited to the comp. and 1.6 rockers and it being freshen up. So 528 hp from 486 hp 350  is a difference of 42 hp increase from the stroke change. So IMO we can guess that 42 hp came from the stroke change and 37 hp from the other changes to total a difference of 79 hp increase overall.

Is there not some post missing, I thought we talked about the tires last time, but do not see those post?

Opps, found those post, wrong board-click here>1382.18

Well we agree on some things yet disagree on others. I still think you get more power w/ higher compression ratios than a longer stroke. You get more low end torque w/ a longer stroke but you lose some RPM. If longer stroke & more cubes is what you want then just build a 400. I like the rpm range on the 350 much better than the stroker.

I would never build either one of these engines w/ a cast steel crank. With the stroker route you'll need to spend some $$ on an internally balanced forged steel crank to do the job right. 350 cranks are already internally balanced whether they are cast or steel. Some guys will just use a stock cast 400 crank & have it machined to fit the 350 block. Big mistake there, the 400 crank is externally balanced so you will still have to run the 400 balancer & flywheel. Some guys will spend the $300 dollars or so it costs to have the 400 crank internally balnced so they can use the 350 balancer & flywheel. That's a better route, you'll get better rpm & less vibration but you will still have a cast crank. Spend the money & buy the forged steel internally balanced crank. You will not need to grind the rods if you get a small base circle cam. Also if you build a stroker w/ the 400 rods & 350 pistons you are defeating the purpose of building a stroker in the first place. You need to use the 5.7 rod w/ the stroker pistons to get the increased leverage & torque the stroker provides. 

The bottom line is both are good performers but the 350  built properly will cost less $$$ than the stroker and for the most part run right with it. The 350 will also stay together longer than most strokers.

Here is what's in my 350.....

350 Chevy bored .020 over w/ H618CP Speed Pro .125 dome hypereutectic coated pistons. Speed Pro plasma-moly rings, factory  steel crank, stock rods w/ ARP wave lock rod bolts, Clevite H series performance bearings, Durabond teflon coated performance cam bearings, Competition Cams solid roller cam,.576 ex. lift, .570 intake lift, .242 intake duration w/ .248 exhaust duration @.050. Comp Cams Endure-X solid roller lifters, Yella Terra shaft style roller rocker arm assemblies, Competion Cams chrome-moly pushrods, Dynagear true roller timing kit, Melling high volume pump 10555 w/bolt on screen, SFI approved balancer & flywheel, Pro lightning cast iron heads w/ 64cc chambers, CNC machined chamber & bowl, 220 intake runners, Ferrea stainless valves, 2.055 intake & 1.60 exhaust, Comp Cams dual springs, engine was completely balanced, compression ratio is 11:1.

Dart intake manifold, Holley 750 double pumper w/ mechanical secondaries, Holley electric fuel pump w/ regulator, Hooker Super Comp headers w/ 3 chamber flowmasters & 2 & 1/2 pipe all the way out. Auburn Gear posi w/ 411 gears, rebuilt 350 turbo tranny w/shift kit, hardened shaft,  B&M Quick Silver shifter, 10 inch TCI 3,500 stall, MSD ignition box w/ rev limiter, MSD distributer & coil.    

You have a nice combo. I think if you were ever to build a 383 you would enjoy it. I have had 12:1 383 cast crank motors rev to 8,000 rpm and run 10.80's with chevy 5.7 rods and a 400 balancer and flexplate ( this is before NHRA required SFI balancers and flexplate on 10.99 or quicker) in a Camaro with 5.13. 

If longer stroke & more cubes is what you want then just build a 400.

421's and 434's are popular out here. Here in So Cal 400 blocks are getting price'e and hard to find, but 350's are still a dime a dozen, so 383's are very popular. Scat, Cat, Eagle are the more common sources for 383 cranks. Just recently had a mishap with a 383, lost the hypertech piston and scattered the motor, bent the rod into a horse shoe and windowed the block. Took the cast crank to have it checked, figured it was bent or cracked. The shop said it was fine, except for the scrap metal scars, you would not have known it was hammered so hard. It is a Scat crank. Click on the logo to enter their site.

The Ultimate in High Performance Cranks, Connecting Rods & Rotating Assemblies

You are right about the 400 blocks becoming scarce. 350's are much more plentiful. Scat does make some nice cranks as you said. I however have a 400 cast Scat crank here from a customer of mine that is cracked on the radius of almost all the rod journals. He ran the hell out of it in his Vega which runs 10.10's all day but it didn't last very long. He spent some bucks & purchased a forged steel Scat crank a few years ago & has had no troubles at all w/ it.

Sounds like you have a nice beast there yourself. What year is it & is it street legal?

take care

Mike

Sounds like you have a nice beast there yourself. What year is it & is it street legal?

That 383 is long gone, we used the wrong fuel while trying nitrous, C16 vs C14 and it was fatal. We hyd the motor and bent the rods, but it still ran, shaking like an earthquake. I have several cars, not all running at the same time, V8 Vega, V8 Monza, V8 Project RX7, Stock Rotary RX7, V8 LUV Truck, 69 Firebird, 68 Camaro, 69 Camaro. 69 Camaro is what I am bracket racing. Here are some post discribing the various motors and cars. Click here >2780.18 and here >1976.28

"That 383 is long gone, we used the wrong fuel while trying nitrous, C16 vs C14 and it was fatal."

I'm betting you over-sprayed it and/or didn't take out enough timing.  I use C-12 (108 octane) in my 350 w/ 13:1cr.  I don't experience any detonation.  However, I do have a fairly long duration cam which likely bleeds off some dynamic compression (254/262* @ 0.050").  I've read in VP literature that C-12 will support up to 14:1cr.

I'm betting you over-sprayed it and/or didn't take out enough timing.  I use C-12 (108 octane) in my 350 w/ 13:1cr.  I don't experience any detonation. 

C14 worked great with out nitrous, but with nitrous, it would blow out the cold plugs even with the timming back 10 degrees down ( reason we hyd the motor). Back in the 80's we were told by the fuel manufacture we should have read the pamphlet on fuel available were we got our fuel. C14 burn quicker and with nitrous it was a bad combo producing detination, and we should have used C16 which was designed for it. Today there is an NO2 fuel.

C14
Recommended for naturally aspirated engines operating at over 8000 RPMs with CRs of 14:1 and over in drag race cars, 4-stroke drag race motorcycles, snowmobiles and PWCs (230 psi or higher). Spec fuel for NHRA Comp Eliminator.

• Color: Yellow
• Motor Octane: 114
• Specific gravity: .696 at 60° F

C16
Used in turbocharged engines, blown engines and nitrous applications with CRs up to 17:1. Recommended by the top nitrous oxide companies. Spec Fuel for NHRA Comp Eliminator.

• Color: Blue
• Motor Octane: 117
• Specific gravity: .735 at 60° F

NO2
Recommended for fogger or three-stage nitrous oxide applications with CRs up to 18:1. Higher octane and lower specific gravity than most nitrous fuels. May require enriching fuel mixture more than would be required for C16.

• Color: Clear
• Motor Octane: 120.3
• Specific Gravity: .699 at 60° F

 

Do you have the description for the green stuff (C-12)?  If so, can you post?  Thanks.  

Do you have the description for the green stuff (C-12)?  If so, can you post? 

Sure-

C12
The best all around racing fuel made. Recommended for CRs below 15:1, satisfying the needs of 75% of today's race engines. One of the winningest fuels in racing history, including Modified Tour, GNN, D.I.R.T., Indy Lights, NHRA, AMA as well as other local and national championships across the U.S. and around the world.

• Color: Green
• Motor Octane: 108
• Specific gravity: .717 at 60° F

I'm thinking of installing a NitrousWorks plate system on my '64 Chevelle, and using 150 or 200hp pills.  What's your reco, stay with C-12 or step up to either C-14 or C-16?  Cost isn't an issue.  But, I don't want to pay extra if not necessary.

Here's my combo:

353cid (+.020); DZ302 block; Cola forged crank; Eagle 6" H-beam rods; JE forged pistons (13cr); zero deck; Sportsman II heads; solid flat tappet (.572/591" & 254/262* @ 0.050") w/ 112 LSA; Vic Jr w/ Holley 800cfm x2 pumper; Holley comp electric pump w/ 1/2" line; 1 7/8" headers w/ 3" Flowmasters.  Cranking cylinder pressure is 210 - 215lbs.  Car weighs 3,800lbs (inc. my tub bu+t), running an M-22 and I flip back and forth between a 4.10 and a 4.56 cogs. 

I noticed the C-14 description stated its use is for n/a motors operating above 8,000rpm.  I shift at ~7,800rpm.

Thanks.

Edit:  Fortunately, I built the motor planning on running nitrous at some point in time.  Thus, the reason for the 112 LSA stick and the rings have been opened up.