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Posted: 09/08/04
05:13 PM
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I am building a 383 stroker ,80-85 block(2 bolt) , eagle rotating assy,ARP Bolts, comp cams x-treme energy xe274h (.490-.490),action plus intake(dual Plane)336X heads (71-350),Compression Ratio is around 9.7 with 76cc,also has a milling high pressure pump,MSD6AL Ing & MSD Pro billet dist w/ Blaster2 Coil. This is going into a 84 TA 5 speed with disc all the way around.
My question is :
need to get a flywheel from a 400SBC or get the stock one balanced, but I've seen on ebay a plate that he claims you can use a stock 350 flywheel , has anyone ever used one if so how did it work ? Or should i just get the one i have balanced ? I want to keep it alittle heavy to keep up the rpms .
Any info would be greatly welcomed
Thanx in advance
DEL
Edited 9/8/2004 5:25 pm by Dels84TA383
Edited 9/8/2004 8:13 pm by Dels84TA383
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Posted: 09/09/04
04:40 PM
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Can anybody help ??????
oldBogie you must have an answer that can help . just signed up & you really seem to know your stuff . but any advice from anyone could be a great help
thanx
Del
Edited 9/9/2004 4:53 pm by Dels84TA383
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Posted: 09/12/04
06:22 AM
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need to get a flywheel from a 400SBC or get the stock one balanced, but I've seen on ebay a plate that he claims you can use a stock 350 flywheel , has anyone ever used one if so how did it work ? Or should i just get the one i have balanced ? I want to keep it alittle heavy to keep up the rpms .
400 are external balance, meaning there are counter weights on the balancer and flexplate to balance the engine. The plate is just a counter weight so you can use a non counter weight 350 flex plate instead. It is a matter of choice, the counter balance cost a few dollars less than a 400 flexplate. Here is some info off the net-
383 Stroker FAQ
The 383 chevy is one of the most powerful engines you can build. It is also the source of many questions and a lot of confusion. This is a basic 383 information page. The info is specifically about the properties and special conditions they may require in there buildups.
What is a 383 and what do I need to build one?
A 383 is a 350 production block with a 400 production crank. The crank has some special machine work done, namely the main journals of the 400 are 2.65" and the 350's are 2.45" so they must be turned down by .200" to make the STD. 350 main bearing size. Since the 400 is externally balanced you will need a balancer and flywheel/flexplate for a 400 CID chevy motor.
Do I need special pistons?
Yes and no. The added stroke of the engine would push the piston out of the bore by .125" if you used stock 350 pistons and rods. If you run stock 350 pistons and 400 style rods you can get away without special pistons but The skirts may also hit the counterweights since the 400 crank has larger weights and is longer from the centerline outward. If you go this route you need to pay close attention to crank to piston skirt clearance.
What's with this rod thing?
The 400 uses a 5.56" long connecting rod. All other small block chevy's use a 5.7" rod. The reason for the shorter rod is GM decided not to raise the piston pin higher so they shorted the rod the appropriate length to prevent the piston from popping out. 383's can have many different rod lengths but the first ones used stock 400 rods and stock 350 pistons with relieved skirts before custom pistons were available.
Which rod is better and why?
The longer rods are better than shorter ones. For a full explanation see the rod FAQ
Will longer rods cost more or require special work?
Yes and Yes!! The longer rods themselves don't cost more but the pistons you need will raise in price. The pistons will have higher piston pin heights and will have rings higher up on the piston. In cases where a non stock rod of 6.00" or longer the pin will actually intersect with the oil ring. These will require support rails for the ring. The longer rods will also make cam to rod clearance an issue. Special grinding or clearancing of the rod bolt shoulder will be required and/or a reduced base circle camshaft will be required.
What will the block require?
The block will need to be notched in the oil pan area. The longer stroke crank will need deeper notches to clear the counter weights and rod throws.
Should I balance the motor?
Yes!!!!! Any time you change geometry from stock a balance job is neccessary. That is if you want it to live! The pistons and rods are lighter than stock 400 versions and there is too much counterweight. This will make for a lot of vibrations and that is bad for a motor.
What kind of heads do I need?
Any kind you want. A 383 takes the same cylinder heads as a 350. The 383 does like larger heads and big valves but it is not mandatory to have 2.02/1.60 valves and huge intake runners.
Do I need steam holes in these heads?
No! A 383 uses a 350 block and it has no provisions for steam holes. It also cools like a 350 so only minor cooling system upgrades are neccessary.
What is the cost of this kind of buildup?
This is a tricky question and probably the most asked one! A 383 can be very pricey. The crank will cost a pretty penny to find a used one. There are several aftermarket companies selling '383' cranks that don't require any work so said. A crank can cost anywhere from 250 to over 1800$ depending on the kind and quality of the crank you buy. Pistons also fall into this wildly ranging category. You can spend 150 on cheap cast pistons or over 500 on light forged units. The balance job can cost from 120 to 240 depending on the shop, kind of balance job and the area you live in. Block work is not too bad. The only extra is the notching and that can be from 100-175 for the work. The rods are also another area of wide variety. You can get stock reworked 400 rods with ARP bolts for 100$ and you can order the 700$ sportsman rods and so on. If you order aftermarket rods that are profiled for stroker motors you will save yourself the grinding of the rods and/or the reduced base circle cam. If you get stock rods or non profiled rods you will either have to grind them yourself or pay your shop 50-100$ for this. You will also need to do this before the motor is balanced!!! I have built them for around 1600 and as much as 10,000 so far so do some leg work and pricing!
How much power will the stock 400 crank handle?
I have used a prepped 400 crank to 700+HP I have used basically stock cranks to over 550 HP so a stock nodular iron crank is fine for most buildups. The crank is strong because of the beefier construction of the crank.
What is the red line on these motors?
The red line varies from motor to motor depending on the parts installed and work done etc... A basic short rod 383 will live to 5500 and a 5.7" rod motor will go to 6500. Motors with forged internals and special work done can of course go higher. As a basic rule of thumb you can go 1000 RPM per 10PSI of oil pressure. If you have 70 PSI you can make 6000 with a 10 PSI safety margin. This rule will affect every kind of motor. It's kinda of an either/or here. You can go as high as your oil pressure permits or the internal parts permit whichever is lower!
What size cam will I need?
Probably the second most asked question is cam sizing. This is another tricky thing to pick. Since ever single aspect of the engine and vehicle it's installed in will affect this I will just give another rule of thumb. 99% of rated ranges on products are based on the 350. If you have built a 383 you can add 10 degrees of duration to the motor and get very similar characteristics. For example; A 350 would probably have a moderate to rough idle with a 224 duration cam, measured @ .050 lift. The 383 will take a 234 duration cam to make almost the same idle and vacuum as the 350. These motors also like to breath so larger duration longer lift cams work well in them. Don't overcam! Just because you have a bigger engine don't go stuff the largest cam you can find into it. Most street engines use less than 234 degrees of duration @ .050! The motor is bigger so it will make more power with less cam so a 383 with a 214 cam will make more than a 220 duration cam 350 if all else was the same.
What intake and manifold should I use?
Intake should be a high rise aluminum and a moderate carb. The 383 likes to breath so a bigger intake manifold like the RPM or Stealth would be a better choice but the performer and action + manifolds will work. Carb also depends on application but on the street under 6000 RPM you could get away with a 650! A 750 would make more power but is the largest you should go unless you are all out racing!
Are there any special things I need to pay attention to when assembling the motor?
Yes you must check cam to rod clearance and block to rod clearance. Both should be .050" minimum! All other specks will be the same as a 350 or whatever the manufacture specifies.
Should I run a high volume oil pump?
Only if you have a deep extra capacity oil pan. I personally do not like or condone high volume oil pumps on any engine. A stock oil pan will be sucked dry by a high volume pump @ 4500 RPM under hard acceleration. I have rebuilt more than a few motors that burnt up this way. |
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Posted: 09/12/04
11:10 AM
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thanks for the info it was a good bit of stuff. think i may just balance what i have .that way ill know what i have.
my machine shop told me that i should be in the range of 400 ponies & 430-450 flbs with the combo i have . what do you think
Del
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Posted: 09/13/04
01:45 PM
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Del,
Keep this in mind also. If you are building the engine yourself, the stroker crank may already be internally ballanced. What I mean is, if you ordered the crank after market, alot of companies make them internally balanced to eliminate the need for the use of a 400 balancer and flexplate and you can use the balancer and flexplate off of a 350 with no problem. Now if you got this crank out of a 400 then odds are good it's externally balanced and you're on the right path. You can buy balancers and flexplates for a 400 cheap now days. Just wanted to throw that out there. Good luck!!
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Posted: 09/13/04
05:04 PM
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I have an eagle rotating assy cast street & strip with 9.5-9.7 compression w/ 76cc haeds . not sure if it internal or external . machine shop told me that i should get it(flywheel) balanced if i want to use the one i have now.
should get some info from eagle
thanks
DEL
Edited 9/13/2004 5:37 pm by Dels84TA383
Edited 9/14/2004 1:18 pm by Dels84TA383
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Posted: 09/16/04
05:41 AM
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my machine shop told me that i should be in the range of 400 ponies & 430-450 flbs with the combo i have . what do you think
A mild 383 makes 1 hp per cubic inch, so 383 hp out of a 383 is not unexpected. A heathy 383 makes between 1 hp to 1.25 hp per cubic inch and puts you up to 478 hp. A radical 383 puts out 1.5 hp per cubic inch puts you at 574 hp. A race prep 383 puts out 1.75 hp per cubic inch to 670hp. An all out high dollar comp eliminator style 383 does 2 hp per cubic inch to a tune of 766 hp, then you can add power adders and reach above 1,000 hp.
400 hp is a realistic prediction.
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Posted: 09/16/04
04:45 PM
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thats good to here .it makes me glad to know that it was a good choice to build the 383 .my HP should go up by a fair margin with a good set of heads and a better intake.may look at the vortech setup have read a lot of good stuff on the .like " one of the best bank for your performance dollar" and what not . what do you think vortech or world or dart.which is best for my current setup ?
thanks again for all the info
DEL
Edited 9/16/2004 7:33 pm by Dels84TA383
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Posted: 09/20/04
11:46 PM
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" one of the best bank for your performance dollar" and what not . what do you think vortech or world or dart.which is best for my current setup ?
For the money, you can't beat a Vortech head. World, Dart are good choices if you want to step up. I like AFR heads even though they are more money.
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Posted: 09/21/04
04:40 AM
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Another cylinder head option to explore is Pro Action Iron Lightning.
We run a street/strip bracket 67 Chevelle with a 383 .613 lift mech roller, victor intake, 750 mighty demon, 10.5 comp, power glide and 4.10 12 bolt rear. 3860 lbs with driver and run 11.60's all day long. Our combo makes 409 hp to the wheels (corrected) and has lived for 4 years.
As to the flexplate, my suggestion is to go with an SFI approved B&M piece. The price is not that much more than you will pay for either of the two options you have suggested earlier and it's much more solid.
Just my opinion....... enjoy the 383
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Posted: 09/23/04
09:58 AM
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Another cylinder head option to explore is Pro Action Iron Lightning.
Shhhhhhhhhhh. Pro Action heads are the best kept secret.
Actually I sold my Dart heads to get a set of Pro Actions, I have herd nothing but good things.
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Posted: 09/23/04
02:38 PM
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Another tip is paint them chevy orange with heavy paint to get the
factory orange peel look. SLEEPER
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Posted: 09/23/04
07:51 PM
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A sleeper would be nice , but with cutouts ,dual exhaust with super 40's & a 383 rumble it may be a littlte on the hard side.
How do the pro lightening heads go as far as pricing ? also had someone tell me about Holley alum.heads are they any good for the money . alot of choices to make I want try to match everything the first time around ,this is going to be expensive enough as it is.This is going to be a street& strip car that I hope will get me down the track in mid to high 12's .
Any body with some good advice can send it my way.
Thanx
DEL
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Posted: 09/24/04
04:44 AM
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I live in the great frozen white north of Canada so the pricing issue is not really something I can comment on. I do believe that you will find them very competitive with other aftermarket iron and aluminum heads though. Shipping all the way from Australia is bound to up the price a little though.
As to the benefits of them....... We run a '65 Chevelle (3860 lbs with driver) 10.5:1 short rod 383, Victor intake, 750 mighty demon, .613 lift mech roller, Hooker super comp headers, 2sp glide, 4.10 stock 12 bolt on 28x13.5 et streets. The car has gone a best of 11.59 at 116 on motor alone, and averages 11.60 all day long. Add a touch of spray and this is where the heads really shine. They inhale and exhale so efficiently.
And just so this stays on thread, we run a b&m sfi approved flexplate, cost us less than $200 canadian.
Hostile Racings motto: Go fast, Go hard, Get there first.
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Posted: 09/24/04
05:10 PM
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Where in CANADA are you from?Im an east coaster myself,"Moncton,N.B" Where did you get the flywheel from,anything I see is expensive ? How many "loonies" did the heads cost?
Not alot of Canucks on any of these sites that ive found
thanx
a fellow canucker EH
PS mine is a 5 speedT5
Edited 9/24/2004 5:11 pm by Dels84TA383
Edited 9/25/2004 7:35 pm by Dels84TA383
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