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montec313
New User
| Posts: 14
| Joined: 10/05
Posted: 11/05/05 03:24 PM
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accoding to Edelbrock on a 350 chevy engine if you use the Edelbrock rpm heads,intake,750 carb,cam with free flowing head and good ignition you will pull 420hp+++++ if i do all that with the engine bored .060 over with the stroker kit, will that get me to a least 450 or more?????? going in the 85 monte ss. what will be a good stall torque converter?
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Posted: 11/05/05 10:24 PM
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I think it would (hit 450) But there's only one way to find out. I would say 2500 or maybe 3000 stall.........i would lean strongly toward the 3000 myself, but i'm a firm believer in the bigger is better theory(to a point ofcourse)
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oldBogie
Guru
| Posts: 1195
| Joined: 08/03
Posted: 11/10/05 11:28 AM
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450 hp on a 2 bolt bottom end is asking a lot. It's a huge investment you're putting into a marginal block at this power level. A 750 cfm carb is way overkill on a 350. It takes revs will over 6500 to utilize this much cfm and that's getting beyond thin ice for a 2 bolt. All told that's a lot cash to throw away to save some money on the block. You'd be well advised to think of spending less money for power output and more for bottom end strength.
Important things to do when looking at this much power is a really good balance job by a shop that knows what it's doing. Studs on the bottom end. Moroso 4 bolt caps or a girdle. Forged crank and some really good aftermarket rods. Otherwise this is just a granade looking for a place to blow. Especially if combined with a vehicle that weighs more than 2500-3000 pounds.
Bogie
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montec313
New User
| Posts: 14
| Joined: 10/05
Posted: 11/19/05 04:26 PM
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the mcahine shop said they will convert the 350 to a 4 bolt main
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oldBogie
Guru
| Posts: 1195
| Joined: 08/03
Posted: 11/21/05 04:04 PM
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Wow, you keep getting me deeper into this subject. So let’s go!
One important consideration when thinking about holding more than 400 hp in a small block is how that power is going to be used. The occasional run up to red line for one's personal amusement probably doesn't require special things be done to the bottom end. If you're running nitrous or a low pressure blower; you might want to look at beefing the bottom end. Especially with nitrous, as the power comes up rather quickly with laughing gas, hitting the bottom end pretty hard.
If you're going to wail on the engine frequently or for long periods of time, then you need to look at doing things to the bottom end. A classic is to do what your machinist recommends which is to put a set of Moroso steel 4 bolt mains into the block. This requires some machining of the cap mount of the bulkheads to register the new caps and provide threaded holes for the additional bolts. This also requires that the block be align bored to insure the crank main journals are turning in the same centers.
If you're holding enough power to warrant 4 bolt caps, my preference is to go with a beefier rod, there's many to pick from, expect to invest from 500 to 1000 dollars. I prefer those with cap screw configurations rather than bolt and nut also H beam over I beam. But read the manufacturer's recommendation for power level as these things get mighty expensive mighty quickly so there's little sense in buying more rod than you need and lots of risk to buying less than you need. Childs and Albert, Eagle, GMPP Bowtie, Lunati, Manley, and SCAT are several sources that have various levels of quality.
Balancing is all important, I prefer a fully balanced crank, that's one with counterweights on the center journals such as being done by Scott Bechtloff. A fully counterweighted and balanced crank takes a lot of load off the main bearings. A crank that's not running "in balance" wants to rotate about a center other than where its held by the main bearing caps, their bolts and the bearing webs of the block. This difference can and does place a lot of load into these parts reducing the amount of power the engine can develop. The reason for this is that all loads cannot be counterbalanced; the major load of this type is the power stroke. If the crank or any of its journals have to react off center bearing loads, there is just that much less structural strength available in the crank, main caps and their bolts/studs, and the block's bearing bulkheads to carry power stroke loads. A fully counterweighted does lead to a heavier crank, but the forces are better damped and if you can't afford frequent engine replacement, this is money well spent. So you simply have to trade acceleration for longevity. However, since most guys just can't afford a fully counter weighted crank, doing a balance job on what you have is still very valuable toward keep the crank wanting to rotate within the bearing plane. The center counterweights are intended to unload twisting moments through the center main which are imparted in large measure by the power strokes. You'll notice that when SBCs blow up it's usually the journal ahead or behind the center main that lets go.
Bogie
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montec313
New User
| Posts: 14
| Joined: 10/05
Posted: 01/04/06 07:34 PM
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the machine shop will convert to a 4 bolt and the do a line bore. i was thinking of a stroker kit with forged pistions. crank already balanced. the engine has been bored .060 already
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montec313
New User
| Posts: 14
| Joined: 10/05
Posted: 01/04/06 07:39 PM
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can you hook up a turbo charger to a carb engine and how
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94 vortec
New User
| Posts: 36
| Joined: 04/05
Posted: 01/05/06 01:40 PM
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Two bolt Vs Four bolt Vs Splayed
Two bolt main blocks are more common and easier to come by. Many will even argue they are stronger than their four bolt counterparts because they take less material out of the web of the engine block. A two bolt also gives you the option later of installing 4 bolt caps or splayed main caps -- the strongest combination possible. Keep in mind there are significant machine shop labor costs using this option.
If you plan to exceed 400 HP with a small block or 600 HP with a big block, you should use a four bolt block.
If you plan to exceed 500 HP with a small block or 800 HP with a big block, buy a two bolt main block and have splayed caps installed.
Be careful with certain 4-bolt blocks before you buy them, especially the 400 small block Chevy. It is very common for these blocks to be cracked in the web area near the mains.
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oldBogie
Guru
| Posts: 1195
| Joined: 08/03
Posted: 01/11/06 01:15 PM
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If you are assured that the rods will clear the cam, then a balanced kit can be useful. I've given up finding one it seems every stroker I build from a kit still needs a little trimming on the rods, in which case purchasing an already balanced kit is money wasted as you should rebalance when removing material from the rod. Now if this engine is street torquer say going into a pickup for hauling a trailer, then getting to the nat's butt on balance isn't that critical. So if a rod is hanging out 5 to 8 grams different from the other rods it isn't to much of a problem. However, if this engine is going to visit a lot of high RPM or is a competition engine, then getting the balance within a fraction of a gram is a lot more important. So let how you intend to use the engine adjust your judgement. Also, if this is a high winder, it's a good idea to have the rod shot peened especially in the places that you've ground on. This puts a compressive layer on the surface of the rod which does a lot to stop crack formation. Most rods come from the factory already shot peened, but your grinding activities will locally remove that surface.
I much prefer rods that use the cap screw rather than the bolt and nut method of retaining the cap, particularly for stroker engines. When you have to grind for clearance, the cap screw rod retains much more material strength than when you grind away a portion of bolt head and mating land area as must be done to a bolt and nut design. If the engine is going to see lots of effort above 6000 RPM or is going into a boat, pull tractor, blower or nitrous go with an "H" beam rod. If this is just a torque exersize for towing on the highway at low and middish RPMs, standard "I" beam rods are plenty strong enough.
Bogie
Edited 1/11/2006 1:24 pm by oldBogie
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montec313
New User
| Posts: 14
| Joined: 10/05
Posted: 01/12/06 07:39 PM
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it will be going in a 85 monte carlo ss. will play around here and there with it, with a trip or to the strip every so often.
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montec313
New User
| Posts: 14
| Joined: 10/05
Posted: 01/15/06 05:15 PM
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oldbogie, whad up though? i heard that a 600cfm carb with bigger jets in it will support around 400-450 horses or so. how to is that? i got that 600cfm holley performer carb, do you think if i put bigger jets in it will support it? if i have to get a 750cfm carb i will. i'm just trying to save alittle, its a new carb.
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montec313
New User
| Posts: 14
| Joined: 10/05
Posted: 01/15/06 10:02 PM
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im going with the stroker kit with forged rods and pistons, i got the edelbrock rpm intake,headers,hi volt ingition, been torque plate .060 over & honed. what will be a good big cam use? is there any stock heads can i use (vortec or off another year) i have the stock pair still they came off a 70' monte carlo 350. are these heads to small? going with roller tip rockers,double roller, 7qt oil pan with windage tray. im looking for some horse power around 450-500.
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GibTG
Moderator
| Posts: 1358
| Joined: 10/03
Posted: 01/16/06 08:00 AM
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Stock vortec heads and a 600 CFM carb will not come close to your 450 Hp expectations on a 383.
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montec313
New User
| Posts: 14
| Joined: 10/05
Posted: 01/16/06 07:52 PM
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with the right stock pieces you can reach 400 or so ponies
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GibTG
Moderator
| Posts: 1358
| Joined: 10/03
Posted: 01/16/06 09:13 PM
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Alright, you tell me.
You stated that you wanted 400 Hp, then you stated you wanted 450-500 Hp, and now back to 400 Hp. I think your just throwing meaningless numbers around anyway...
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