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Posted: 02/06/06 07:00 PM
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Hey guys, i recently enquired a 400 small block from a buddy, and im going to be puttin it in a 1985 s-10 blazer :-) and i am looking for some cheap, but good bolt on mods so far i already have:
Alluminum rods
Alluminum heads
Roller Rockers
Timing Gears
edelbrock performer intake
Holley carb
Headman headers (shorties)
Thinkin about a steel forged crank
Thanks for your looking and input if you leave any
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GibTG
Moderator
| Posts: 1327
| Joined: 10/03
Posted: 02/06/06 07:39 PM
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Crankshafts and rods are far from bolt-ons they require machine work and engine building expertise. To start at the beginning of your list, aluminum rods aren't for street motors, neither are they cheap. Aluminum heads aren't cheap either, but if you have a sound buttom end might be worth buying and installing to gain some power. Roller rockers also do not gain you much "bang for the buck" as they only become required with cams of lifts significantly over .500". An intake a carb is a good place to start, as is checking and possible replacing the timing chain. A steel crank will also not net you much in horsepower gains and requires tearing into the buttom end of the motor, which then you are talking about a full overhaul and it is a whole 'nother ball-game.
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Posted: 02/06/06 08:01 PM
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Sorry about this guys, but i may have mislead you...... I already have all the stuff listed, my dad has aquired it over the years from either my uncle drag racing, or mudd bogging, but anywho..... this isnt going to bea street motor, just a motor that goes down the strip a couple times, and out for a cruise once and a while.... i am also going to putting a good size cam in it..... dont get me wrong, i know how to work on motors, and so does my dad, we have built many motors in our days, im just looking for some cheap stuff to "up" the HP.... and i know carbs, intakes, and cams play a big part, and Heads, rods, and a set of roller rockers dont play a part in a big HP gain, but i have everything that i have listed, sitting on my workbench at home.... and i also have a set of pete jackson timing gears to go along with it all..... thanks for the response
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GibTG
Moderator
| Posts: 1327
| Joined: 10/03
Posted: 02/06/06 08:58 PM
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A drag only blazer? Huh, I'm sure it can be done but...
If you are gonna use aluminum rods and aftermarket aluminum heads don't waste your time with a performer intake and shorty headers. Also your thinking is a little off, often cylinder heads are one of the best places to put money in, they show good horsepower per dollar gains, unlike longer connecting rods and roller rockers.
How are you gonna plan on getting traction in this blazer? What tranny and gear ratios? Are you limited to pump-fuel? What aluminum heads do you have there? What is your horsepower goal? These are just some of the things that should be asked to help you further.
P.S. I still see very little point in using aluminum rods with anything short of a frequently torn-down, "high-end" drag car.
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oldBogie
Guru
| Posts: 1195
| Joined: 08/03
Posted: 02/07/06 01:06 PM
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You're going to quickly discover that when putting a V8 into anything S-10, the biggest problem is using the power more than hunting for more. A 400 will increase that problem because of its high low end torque. So save a bunch of bucks for dealing with chassis and suspension mods.
Going beyond the unsuitability of aluminum rods in a non drag specific engine, putting them into a 400 is a real pain. This engine already has a tight crankcase with short factory rods in it, just getting a set of standard steel 5.7 inch chevy rods into a 400 is an exercise and a half. Just be aware of this. If your going with aluminum rods, then you have the ability to consider converting the 400 to an internally balanced engine. This is a lot easier on the crank, bearings and the block's main webs as the crank then does a better job of wanting to run on its turning center instead of someplace else as it's want to do when depending upon external balance. Another way to go, especially if this is intended as a competition vehicle is to run a light weight crank. The less rotating mass the faster the engine will build RPMs, aluminum rods and a light crank will take advantage of this.
Aluminum heads will be good for both getting weight off the front axle, a place where the S-10 with V8 can use some help. Continue on with an aluminum water pump and radiator while your at it. Aluminum heads with fast burn type combustion chambers and better than production ports are a great power builder, they'll add an easy 80 horses over stock 400 SMOG heads. The aluminum also allows you to run compression ratios around 10 to 1 while burning 92/93 octane unleaded.
Roller rockers are a nice touch especially with a high lift cam. They really reduce side loads on the valve stem and guide. Contrary to this months artical in CHP -- I've never seen 1.5 to 1 ratio rollers deliver any measurable power increase over non rollers. The only time I've ever seen that happen is when going from 1.5 to 1.6:1 ratio rockers and then only with cams under about 230 degrees of duration when measured at .050 inch lift.
By "Timing Gears" I presume you mean replacing the timing chain and gear set up with a gear drive. OK for a drag race engine not good for circle track or street. The reason being that gears transfer more of the cranks power torque twisting moments, hence vibration, to the cam. The SBC flat tappet cam is an iffy proposition with oiling and lateral retention to begin with so this just isn't a good idea for an engine that is expected to last some miles as it leads to cam breakage and lobe/lifter wear. This could become a big problem with a light weight crank and a small diameter core cam which will probably be needed to clear aluminum rods in this engine.
The Performer intake is OK for the street. If this is a serious race motor a Victor is a much better choice.
Holley, what can I say?
Headman shorties, I understand the problems of getting an SBC into the S-10. Unless you're willing to do a lot of tubing fabrication to get equal lengths out of the engine room, shorties are about the only solution other than some factory manifolds.
Bogie
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Posted: 02/07/06 07:33 PM
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Thanks for the long post bogie, theres some useful info in there..... my blazer is lowered, with some nice american racing 5 start 265/50R/15 tires(or something along those lines) on it. it has brand new shocks, and the frame and suspension has already had a v8 in it. but when i got the blazer it had no motor in it, due to the blown v8, so i put a fuel efficient v6 in it, that i soon blew. so my dad recently picked up a 400 like i said, so im going to be putting that in it with a auto tranny. this is going to be more of a once a wk/2 wks driver.... not sumthing i get out all the time, maybe a few swipes down the strip, this is more of a project/toy for my to progress with during my tech school.
thanks for the useful info
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Posted: 02/07/06 09:02 PM
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Hey bogie, i was just wondering waht kind of HP you think i might be able to push out of this beast..... assuming i am using some decent pistons and what not
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oldBogie
Guru
| Posts: 1195
| Joined: 08/03
Posted: 02/08/06 05:33 PM
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Power will depend mostly on piston, head, and cam selection. Pistons should be of a flat top or "D" dish design. This maxes squish and quench which gets the most out of fuel energy and minimizes detonation problems against a given octane fuel. Compression depends on a lot of variables but in the compromises I'd go for would be a tight chamber and flat tops or "D" dish over a large chamber and a domed piston.
Heads need to feature the heart or kidney shaped combustion chamber that GM calls a Fastburn. This is the old Sir Harry Ricardo carodid chamber and it just can't be beat on a wedge engine. Dan Gurney used this chamber in the famous Gurney Westlake Ford heads back in the 1960s to such great effect they were banned by most racing organizations. These chambers are like an automatic 40 to a 100 horsepower against anything they replace.
The cam is the brains of all this, the amount of duration, lift, overlap, intake closing point, and Lobe Seperation Angle all have a big influence on how much torque and power are develop and where their developed in the RPM curve. They also influence how the engine runs what engineer's call "tractability".
With a 750 cfm carb, a cam of around 225-230 degrees at oh, fifty and a set of Ricardo chambered aluminum heads pushing a CR of around 10 to 1 this beast ought to deliver between 400 and 450 horsepower and a similar amount of torque.
Bogie
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94 vortec
New User
| Posts: 36
| Joined: 04/05
Posted: 02/14/06 12:51 PM
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Hey Bogie.
I'm getting the impression that the person who started this post is pretty young and all he can see is Horsepower and Aluminum heads etc. He's not looking at this engine in the mathematical sense. As you know horsepower is acquired through balance, optimization, reduced friction and engine component harmony. This person has a bucket of parts haphazardly thrown together and wants a horsepower number for bragging rights. I don't feel he is taking your help seriously. I have benefited greatly from you in the past and value your insight greatly. This person needs to realize he is talking to the Engine Zen-Master and do what you suggest.
Edited 2/14/2006 12:52 pm by 94 vortec (94_vortec)
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