I just pulled an engine out of a 87 chevy caprice, I pulled the vavlecover off to see what heads the engine hand. the part # is 14101081. I looked to see if I could find some spect. on these heads all that I could find out was they are 58 cc heads. I would like to know if they are vortex head and if they are worth keeping. I was think of just boring out the engine to make a nice 355. I don't know what to bo with these heads. What size gasket would I have to use to make these heads 64cc from 58cc. Waht kind of power can I get out of these heads if put on a 355 or a 327? Thanks much.  

These are 86-95 pre Vortec 305 swirl port heads. The valve and port size is inadaquate to support a 327 or 355 of any power output above 200 hp.

What is the block? You can't bore a 305 far enough to get to a 4 inch bore required for a 327 or 355 with out getting wet.

Bogie

The engine is a 305, I want to know what I can do with it. I hear you can bore it out to a 350 and it would run pretty hard. What can I put these heads on and get a lot of torque out off. what can I do with the engine to make it runner.  

Unfortunatly Chevy uses different cores when casting 305 and 350 engines, you cannot bore a 305 to 4 inches with out  either getting into the wet side of the cylinder wall or making what remains so thin as to be totally unreliable. These thin wall blocks cast since 1972 are not like the old 283 or 307 which had enough meat to take a 4 inch bore.

However, there are plenty of 350 blocks out there from short to complete, either new, rebuilt, or from your 'hood's auto dissmantler that can be had from dirt cheap to NASCAR fortunes depending on the size of your bank account.

Bogie 

So I sould just put this block in the juck pile? I took the lifters from the 305 and use put them in a 1972 350 to see if the fit and they are fine as far as I can tell. I thought that these lifter wouldn't fit in a older engine, that is why they make a retro fit. What is a retro fit for if these lifter fit fine Can I use these lifter in this older block? What would I have to modify in order to use a these type of lifter and a after market replacement  roller cam in a block that already had roller cam?

The dividing line for lifters on the Gen I blocks is flat tappet or factory roller. Factory roller blocks will accept the OEM roller or can be converted back to flat tappets. However,  all blocks older than 87 and several new blocks up to but not including the 95 Vortec 880 block also use flat tappets that cannot be converted to OEM rollers, these are usually but not always found in light and heavy duty trucks, sometimes they'll appear in non performance passenger cars. Most OEM roller blocks will be found in passenger cars. But it seems that when it comes to SBCs GM used what ever was on hand for production, so you need to look at the casting numbers to ID whether the block has the physical provisions for the OEM roller cam. But even if the block has the provisions, there is no guarantee that it has the roller cam, for that you need to open the valley and look.

Bogie

I opened a older block and place the lifters and the cam in their bores and as far as I can tell the fit perfectly and rotate fine. So I'm asking can you use the oem roller cam and lifters in a pre 87 block if they fit into the block?  

You're being faked by things that generally appear to be identical, but upon detail inspection are quire different. Yes you can put a GM roller cam and lifters into a non roller block, the cam bearings are the same size. The roller lifter bodies will drop into the older flat tappet bores. But that's where any simularity ends.

Starting with the timing case, cam and timing drive set there are signifcant detail differences. The timing case of the block is redesigned to accept a bolted thrust plate that prevents fore and aft movement of the cam. Roller cams and lifters cannot accept any of this kind of movement where-as the flat tappet cam and lifter can. These pre roller Chevy's have no provision to prevent cam walk. The nose of the OEM roller cam has a different shape than flat tappet cam or aftermarket roller cams. The nose of the OEM roller cam is stepped allow engagement of the thrust plate and provide a pass thru boss which attaches the timing gear to the cam with a small clearance to prevent clamping the thrust plate. This feature makes the OEM roller cam about 3/16's inch longer that the flat tappet cam. It also drives a dimension and shape change to the timing gear hub, making the OEM roller cam timing set unique to the roller cam engines.

Moving to the valley, the first difference stating in 87 for roller cam engines is the three bosses cast along the top of the main oil galley. These are used for bolts that fasten the spider that retains the unique OEM lifter guides. This is a completely different arrangement than that used by the aftermarket for the installation of their roller lifters in what were originally flat tappet blocks. The OEM roller lifter blocks on each side of the valley are about a half inch taller than those of flat tappet blocks. This is because the OEM hydraulic roller is a bit over .4 inch taller than the flat tappet it replaces and needs the extra support to prevent excessive side thrust from egging out the lifter bore. The OEM lifter also has a longer oil relief in the side of the lifter. When used in a flat tappet block with low lifter bores this relief can be exposed at max lift allowing oil to escape the lifter passage and flood the valley floor thus reducing engine oil pressure. OEM roller push rods are about .4 inch shorter that production flat tappet pushrods to make up the difference in the longer body length of the OEM hydraulic roller lifter.

Not all 87 and newer SBC blocks are provisioned for roller cams and not all that are thusly provisioned have roller cams. Prior to the 1996 Vortec engine, most roller cammed engines went into passenger cars. However, not all SBCs from passenger cars have rollers and not all trucks have flat tappets. You will find that the pressures of production rate caused what was available to be used where engines were needed.

There is a mid 95 to the end of non Vortec production with the 95 model an oddball SBC found in trucks. This will have an "880" Vortec block which may or may not use a Vortec roller cam. And to add to the fun may use either swirl port heads or a Vortec head that accepts the TBI intake which all 95 engines use to EOP. I've seen several of these, the first  time it elicited a "What the H*## is this".

OEM roller blocks will accept the older flat tappet cams by using a flat tappet cam, lifters, timing  set, and push rods and not using the roller's thrust plate, lifters, timing set, and pushrods. In fact if you dig around the wrecking years enough, you will find the factory did this a lot with truck engines where it isn't uncommon to find a roller provisioned block with a flat tappet cam set up. You cannot easily, nor cheaply go the other way of putting a GM roller into a non roller block, something even the factory with it's resources didn't attempt.

Bogie

Wow, how do you know so much about chevys?Thank for you help.

I have a 200r4 that came out of my 87 monte. I have heard that inorder for the tranny to hold up to 400+ hp and torque you have to change a lot of part in within the tranny. I have a 383 that I will be finishing up real soon and hope to have the tranny finished when I'm done with it. Can you tell what I have to change and where can I get the patr from. Thank you very much for your help so far!

Just keep taking 'em apart and building them anew and you run into things.

The TH200R4 is a bit delicate for use behind a 383. They can be built but it's expensive and does not really achive the levels of reliability that a street strip machine requires. The 200R4 is really best left to guys that can and do pull and rebuild with the frequency that race cars require. The 700R4 in it's later model configurations also known as the 4L60 this is without the "E" designator is a good choice. The early 700R4 doesn't hold together real well. The good versions are mostly found in 90 thru 94 pickups. The 4L60E or 4L65E starting in 95 can be used but you need a special computer to control it, see GMPP. If you go that route, the beefer 4L80E might be a better choice for behind a 383.

Bogie

Let me get this right I just call gmpp and ask for a computer control box for a 4L60e or 4L80e? How hard is it to install the thing?

Get a hold of Sallee Chevrolet, Scogging ####, or Pace, any of these guys for sure have the tech people who will steer you right.

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/frame.html

http://www.sdpc2000.com/

http://www.paceparts.com/

There's other but it takes hunting, these guys do performance.

Bogie

Can you tell me where I can get a 3.875 crank for a 350?