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bo1500
User
| Posts: 73
| Joined: 06/04
Posted: 05/17/08 05:37 PM
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I wanted to know if anyone could give me sound advice. I have a 94 chevy 1500 that i have posted a few problems about on here and got great feed back now i am in the closing phases of finishing the engine and now i have a set of chevy heads the regular ones before the vortecs and i wanted to know if the vortecs would give me a gain and if so is it worth the trouble? the bottom end is a 350 30 over with. flat tops pistons and a cam measuring 192/203 @.50 lift is 420/443 with center at 107/117 i was going to chane the heads to vortec, with a set of 1.5 roller rockers, with a new intake and bigger injectors is it worth the hassle or should i just stay with my set up? The truck is kind of a toy with occasional towing or 2 hour drive to the beach etc. any help will be appreciated.
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GibTG
Guru
| Posts: 972
| Joined: 10/03
Posted: 05/17/08 06:32 PM
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The vortec heads will show a torque gain but with that stock cam, is it really worth it?
Your heads are most likely swirl-port versions, which are garbage but more than likely your ride will pull fine the way it is. Any cylinder with a larger port volume will show it's gains somewhere up the rpm range, in this case the most significant gains should be around 3500 rpm, which isn't really of concern for a cruiser/tow rig. At speeds lower than this and at part-throttle the demand on the induction system is much less. When port speed is slow the air is more likely to make the awkward turns that are part of OE mass-produced ports, and even a junk port is likely to supply what the piston is demanding at 2000-2500 rpm at part-throttle. So you have to decide if the $500-$700 you would dump into a set of vortecs is worth it...
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wieder
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| Posts: 214
| Joined: 03/08
Posted: 05/17/08 08:29 PM
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If you have more power on your mind in the future,then spend the extra cash.Like GibTG say's with that stock type cam not much gain with the Vortecs LT1 type intake ports with around 20cc more intake port volume. WIEDER
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GibTG
Guru
| Posts: 972
| Joined: 10/03
Posted: 05/17/08 08:39 PM
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A very good point...
If power becomes more of a priority in the future Vortec heads are a great place to start.
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bo1500
User
| Posts: 73
| Joined: 06/04
Posted: 05/18/08 02:05 PM
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So witht the cam that i have that is considered stock because i was told that is about as far as i can go witht the tbi set-up. The heads are easy for me to get and they are not that expensive i just wanted to get a feel for how much of a gain i would get over the swirl-port heads (thanx for the correct name GibTg). I mean i know i cant get out there and jump on a real muscle car but i wanted it to be able to hold its own if it had to. Right now it is running a little bad and it still has a great throttle response and good torque. Thanx for the advice.
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GibTG
Guru
| Posts: 972
| Joined: 10/03
Posted: 05/18/08 02:18 PM
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That is an incredibly small cam on an extremely wide lobe separation so yes I would consider it very near stock.
I think the TBI definitely could use a bigger camshaft but it would require the computer to be re-programmed (custom chip burnt). Even a 'hotter' cam would probably be on a 112-114° lobe separation angle though, this is to keep vacuum high even with some added duration.
I would guess that the Vortecs would pick up a good 15-25 peak horsepower with the current cam you have, keep in mind this would probably be at 4800-5000 rpm. The vortecs would pick up more if you had a larger cam and or possibly a larger throttle body than what you have now. This would also push the peak horsepower up a couple hundred RPM's, which really is at the center of how an engine gains horsepower.
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bo1500
User
| Posts: 73
| Joined: 06/04
Posted: 05/21/08 03:34 PM
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So GibTg i am going to do the change and go for the vortecs i want to get all i can out of the engine. Do you think i would get any more power if i put a set of roller rockers 1.5 or maybe 1.6. I want to avoid changin the cam. It has a nice lope to it not radical but it sounds pretty good (at least to me). The throttle body is bored out to 46mm and it has stock 42lb injectors now should i go up on the injectorss maybe a 50 or 55lb. In your opinion looking at all my mods what should i expect with making the switch to vortecs and everything else i mentioned just a ball park figure thanx for the advice.
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Posted: 05/21/08 06:24 PM
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roller rockers willadd 5-15 hp on this motor with that weak cam just by reducing friction. the 1.6's will give you more lift and duration causing your cam to seem bigger to the valves. you could probably get 10-15 hp with some 1.6 roller rockers but you will proabably need new springs and you will definitely need tall valve covers.
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wieder
User
| Posts: 214
| Joined: 03/08
Posted: 05/21/08 07:22 PM
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1.52 would help like mentioned from Leviakashock and tall covers, don't forget headers and colder intake air for the carb. A electric fan will also add a few more hp this will help squeeze out more power without changing the camshaft and even gain a little more MPG! WIEDER
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GibTG
Guru
| Posts: 972
| Joined: 10/03
Posted: 05/21/08 07:58 PM
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Since you will most likely need a spring change on the vortec heads (to support .420"+ lift) a set of 1.6:1 roller rockers may be a good idea. Look for a split set of rockers and put the higher ratio on the intake valves only. This will not only increase your peak intake lift to about .450" gross but also increases valve acceleration and duration @ .050 slightly. By putting the higher ratio on the intake only you don't increase overlap area as much and it is an attempt to leave your bottom end unchanged. The higher ratio on the exhaust rockers will most likely show its gains at a high rpm, probably higher than this engine will want to run. If you can't find a split set it isn't the end of the world, just make sure there isn't any clearance issues in the valvetrain since the exhaust lift will be around .473" gross. Like others have said, taller covers may be required.
I say your engine can make 300-325 peak horsepower at the flywhell, assuming the tune (chip) is relatively close, the exhaust system isn't restrictive, and that the accessories don't sap away too much. You shouldn't need to change your injectors.
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bo1500
User
| Posts: 73
| Joined: 06/04
Posted: 05/22/08 10:16 AM
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im sorry GibTg and weider the rest of my set up goes like this I have full length headers with (2) high flow cats with dual exhaust and a round un restricted k&n air cleaner, with two electric fans with some 3:73 gears out back and i was going to put a set of under drive pulleys las tbut not least a custom burned chip so does this help
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GibTG
Guru
| Posts: 972
| Joined: 10/03
Posted: 05/22/08 10:51 AM
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Those are all good modifications but they don't change my peak horsepower prediction.
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bo1500
User
| Posts: 73
| Joined: 06/04
Posted: 05/22/08 11:54 AM
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so GibTg i would basically have to go with a bigger cam if i wanted to get in my mid 300's huh? I am a little worried about upping the cam because i have been told that the computer would not take a cam that is too big. I called comp cams and they say the highest my duration could be was 218 and that was at the very max almost too much any advice or should i just be greatful for the 300-325 peak and keep truckin? or maybe a super charger? Thanx in advance.
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GibTG
Guru
| Posts: 972
| Joined: 10/03
Posted: 05/22/08 12:03 PM
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I will explain my train of thought when thinking of what kind of output you could expect...
A well documented engine is a 350 small Chevy with unported vortec heads with a good Holley 4 barrel carb on a Performer RPM dual plane intake with about a 270° hydraulic flat tappet cam with pump friendly compression. It's pretty safe to say that this combo can make about 400 horsepower. Now think that your engine is breathing through basically a 2 barrel 'carb' and has a 20°+ shorter cam on a wider lobe separation angle, don't you think that could account for about 75 horsepower? If you think that's a high estimate, maybe it will only account for 50-60 horsepower.
The decision is up to you. Horsepower is not a big concern for me to an engine that won't see competition,will be frequently street driven, and that won't see a dyno. Just as long as you have a smooth-running engine with enough power to suit your fancy and high quality, durable parts I think it will be great.
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wieder
User
| Posts: 214
| Joined: 03/08
Posted: 05/22/08 07:55 PM
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What GibTG is also saying I gather is that torque is more of a concern for street.Fullsize P.U.'s with a 350 size engine shouldn't really be twisted up anymore than around 4500-5000rpm.Consider a 383 stroker in the future with your Vortecs with a 210 or so int. duration cam,now your closer to 350 crank hp and around 450 flywheel torque. WIEDER
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