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89 Camaro worries  
89 camaro rs
New User | Posts: 6 | Joined: 02/07
Posted: 02/20/07
03:04 PM

Hello everyone,
  First i would like to say i am new here, and the magazine has tons of wonderful and useful information.  I am new to being the owner of a modified chevy, i have had this camaro for almost ten years and have loved it to death, the tbi 305 has just ran like a charm and never protests to any trip no matter how far, but at 18 years old and 110,000 miles it just doesn't have enough "fun" in it.  by the way i am 25 and have four children and another on the way.
  After two years of picking out parts and scrimping to put aside enough cash, I have managed to put together a mild 350. Its lined bored 60 over and decked (just to make it straight). Cast crank, ground 10 and micro polished, flat top hypereticut (forgive my spelling) pistons, stock rods that have been magnafluxed and checked for cracks. I have an edlebrock performer rpm intake, and cam kit,and a 750 cfm carb by edlebrock. an hei ignition with a msd 6a. and to top it off I just bought a pair of cast hp chevy heads with 194/150 valves and 510 springs and a stage 1 port job. I have a 2200 stall torque converter to go infront of my 700r4 tranny, and a 6 pass cooler to maybe keep that tranny alive. oh yea a friend gave me a stock chevy lsd from his camaro it has 2.73 gears.  I know that this isn't ideal, all over the board but i had to build my engine around my car and what i had (and what money i could con my wife into letting me spend). i took a great deal of time and effort into researching parts before deciding on the rpm power. now that i have bored you with the details let me ask some questions that have me tossing and turning at night.
 My car has tbi, converting to a carb... just lakes a 3 port bypass style adjustable regulator right...which i have bought.
  Also the car has antitheft, and i love my stock gauges( i am just weird i guess) and want to keep them, so can i just run the harness and ecu and the fuel pump will work fine?
  And the fan the first one doesn't come on until like 220 how do you change that? and how without rigging can i get the second to work without the a/c?
  How to i hook the tach up with the 6a?

  I have to wait on the exhaust but do long tube headers give you better low end torque? or is shortys the way to go (after the headers i plan to go with 2.5 pipe until the mufflers then stepping to 2.25 out the back with an x pipe in there) but i have to find someone willing to build this in rural bemidji mn.   any advice recomendations or any other ideas are apreciated.  thank you for your time and patience....sleepless in mn....mike  


 
oldBogie
Guru | Posts: 1195 | Joined: 08/03
Posted: 02/20/07
05:09 PM

Ahh, where to start. First thing is what emisisons laws are you under. It's a Federal offense and often state or locality as well to modify a car such that it reduces emission system effectiveness. So the opening shot is that it's illegal to remove the TBI and substitute it with a carburetor. What we rodders have been doing is that if they don't check where we live, we do pretty much as we please. That however, doesn't make it more legal. And I expect that with Global Warming, we're going to see a greater emphisis on emissions law in the near term in places that have thus far tunred a blind eye to inspections. So consider this with your hard earned dollars.

Everything on your car is computer controlled from when the fan turns on and off to the anti-theft. Defeating these things requires either you wholesale trash the computer or start to involve youreslf in some deep engineering. The electrical part is the toughest. Your stock gages are all electronic that includes the speedo, which gets it's info from an electronic sensor in the transmission. There are conversion devices but you're quickly talk more money. Pretty soon a few hundred here and few hundred there and you're into real cash.

2.73 gears behind a 700R4 won't work so scrap that idea.

Given your bottom end isn't the stoutest, you need to shoot for around 300-350 horses. This will work best with 1-1/2 inch tube long headers. Given you live where the weather is mostly cool to cold, 2-1/2 inch collectors into 2-1/4 inch tail pipes are probably too large. Expansion of the exhaust gases into too large collectors and pipes gives up a lot of heat. This causes the gases to slow way down and the back pressure goes up. You're better off to bring your collectors down to 2-1/4 and tail pipes to 2 inches. "X" pipes are more hype than performance, simple duals with a cross-over will get the job done.

I'd need cam data and head casting numbers to comment here. This affects a lot of things including the rear axle ratio and the torque converter stall speed. As I said previously, this combination from what little I do know won't work with a 700R4 and a 2.73 axle, the engine just can't turn enough RPM, especailly in 4th. A 3.08's about as low as you can go with a OD transmisison. On top of that and directly related is the fact that you cannot operate the engine in cruise mode below the stall speed of the converter as it will overheat the oil and the smoke that makes everything actually work will leak out. That's a Lucas Electrical joke, Brit's will understand. The carb won't appriciate an engine turning this slowly either, that's one big advantage of EFI, it is that it happily feeds a slow turning, heavily loaded motor.

750 Holley is way too much for what you can get out of this engine and keep the bottom end intact. If you have to stay SMOG legal, the 305's TBI can be used with a custom chip from Superchip, there are many other outfits that blow PROMS for these computer cars, just GOOGLE it. Places like Turbo City can bore out your TBI for 670 CFM, also a Holley 502-7 will work as well as TBI off a 454 truck motor. All these have 2 inch butterflies and will pass 670 CFM which is plenty for a warmed up 350. TBI keeps you cam limited to about 210 degrees max, but this is plenty for 350 ponies and lots of mid range torque. I'd give that a lot of thought before suffering thru a carburetor, even if it is a Holley.

Old fashion Power Pack heads are just that, old fashion. They just don't deliver the goods like new generation heads such as the Vortec and it's many aftermarket equivalents. These are worth at least 40 horses and foot pounds over the best ported camel humps.

The 700R4 will crap out behind the new engine. Automatics wear at almost an identical rate as the engine they're attached to. I've never seen a high milage auto last more than a month behind a fresh engine, even a simple rebuild let alone a rodded motor, and I've seen it attempted a gazillion times. This is a big expense I'll wager you didn't count on. But you need to roll a new or refreshed gear box into your thinking and planning, sorry!

Bogie  


 
89 camaro rs
New User | Posts: 6 | Joined: 02/07
Posted: 02/20/07
08:12 PM

Smog rules what are those...no just kidding, either they dont have any here or they don't check, or don't care, thats the awsome part here people run whatever they want with no problems unless noise is an issue.

The cam specs are as follows...
Brand: Edelbrock
Product Line: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cam and Lifter Kits
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,500-6,500 RPM
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 234
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 244
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 234 int./244 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 308
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 318
Advertised Duration: 308 int./318 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.488 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.510 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.488 int./0.510 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112
Intake Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Computer Controlled Compatible: No
Lifters Included: Yes
Lifter Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Valve Springs Included: No
Retainers Included: No
Locks Included: No
Valve Stem Seals Included: No
Timing Chain and Gears Included: No
Assembly Lubricant Included: Yes
Pushrods Included: No
Rocker Arms Included: No
Gaskets Included: No
Quantity: Sold as a kit.

Cam and Lifters, Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Advertised Duration 308/318, Lift .488/.510, Chevy, Small Block, Kit

This cam with aluminum rpm heads made 410 hp  408 ft lb torque.  I was under the impression though pushing it the bottom end could withstand this amount of power. but i couldn't like track race it, an ocaisonal 1/4 and i plan on driving miles, like trips to relatives 200 miles away.  i cancled my order for my heads, my uncle offered me a set of camel back heads that have been milled and ported with 2.02 valves and 1.60 exhaust, he's going with aluminium. I know for a fact that the speedo on this car is not computer controled, i have a short so none of the the electronic guages work (i.e. the tach, oil pressure, volt meter, and temp) something when i do the swap i was going to take care of. the converter on the other hand it could be an electronic lockup, in which case i will have to get a new stall converter. I just need to make the summer on the tranny, then i want to  take the tranny out and put a monster transmissions rebuild into to it, and since i am going to rebuild it i might as well do the ss kit which is capable of 750 hp. by doin it myself its only 750 bucks, but the hands on is the best part. i need to find a good tranny book to read on how to rebuild them. i also plan on putting 3.73, or 4.11 but i heard that it really depends on tire size which i should go with. the 2.73 was just to get a lsd in there until i can get a good lsd, it an open diff now and it will spin with the 305. but that also will be at least next summer. i also heard that the x pipe will equal out the back pressure better than an h pipe and either way i have to come up with the parts..about the same price...but i'll wind up either traveling 120 miles to get it done or will have to do it myself.  the carb is an edlelbrock not that it matters, i could get a 650 edlebrock for 100...how much to port my tbi do you think? and how much to reprogram ecu? cant i just leave the ecu in to just run the guages? i guess i could switch the guages and rewire the fuel pump. i don't know that i could afford to go with the tbi...for awhile anyway.the motor and tranny work real well now, it just doesn't have that get up and go, my wifes 99 3.8lv6 mustang with a 5 speed manual keeps right up with it. well i thank you old bogi and hope you reply again thanks mike  


 
chevman24
New User | Posts: 21 | Joined: 08/08
Posted: 09/16/08
01:57 PM

I have an 88 Camaro and have done similar things that you are planning. First off if you stay with the carb switch to a mechanical pump, i had major fuel issues, way too much pressure, and i had two regulators both bypass style regs. Secondly, all of my guages and everything work fine not computer controlled. I even have the computer out and it starts and runs well, without any issues.
As for the fans they are also not computer controlled. There is a fan switch in the head on the passenger bank that controls when the fan turns on. Several different companies make them with a few options to turn the fan on/off at different temps and(check summit racing or Jegs)they cost about 45 bucks. you could also run a ground wire to a switch inside the car(no power wire needed), because all the switch does is ground the fans to the block to turn them on at a specific temperature. Finally, i also have a 700r4. It is a lockup style trans. my only issue is with the transmission. It involves the overdrive kicking in. There are products out there that eliminate the issue.One by painless wiring, B&M, and one other brand that i know of. Each product will eliminate the problem, but they cost 200 bucks(ouch!!!). I dont plan on buying either of them but in the end i might because they are easy fixes. Easyier than searching through the wires in your the car for the right wire. I would certainly change those 2 73's. I have the same ratio but i took out a set of 373's out of a friends s-10 and am going to put them in asap with a posi unit. S-10's virtually have the same rear ends as 82-92 camaros. Thats what i was told anyways.
Mike  


 
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